What I have noticed from many of the detractors of these posts about marriage and children by
@HODL is an underlying rejection of an objective moral standard.
The strong libertarian ethos of the Bitcoin and Nostr community has many positive qualities, but one of the biggest ditches libertarians fall into is the *everything is subjective* mindset and the assumption that freedom means people can do and think whatever they want (always with some vague caveat about not hurting other people) because every lifestyle decision is of equal moral value and deserves to be respected.
But there is an objective moral standard and there are objectively bad reasons to not get married or have children. If someone chooses not to get married or have children for one of these objectively bad reasons, they are *free* to do so, but that decision is still, nonetheless, a morally impoverished one.
Coming up with a thousand nuanced situations that justify a person not having children doesn't change the normativity of having them, the joy and fulfillment found in having them, the objectively superior moral value in having them, or the civilizational suicide course we are on because we aren't having them.
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Replies (27)
Well said
What's this shit, the morality police?
there is No objective moral standard whstsever
well said
Having kids is good. There are also objectively good reasons for some people to not have kids 🤷♂️
This doesn’t need to be complicated.
No.
AND Bitcoin doesn’t care.
Precisely.
Morals can never be objective, my friend.
There is no Morality. That notion is illusory and superstitious in origin. God's law is for our own good, not for His. This is why it was called a gift. The gift was turned into bondage, because man could not keep His law, and the price of recompense would not prevent violating it. This is why we needed redemption.
There are ethics, there is the law of love written on our hearts (the two greatest laws), but morality is judgement and condemnation.
The discussion about parenthood should not be one implying a moral condition, only a guidepost for those who have never heard the truth of parenthood, and how it is an Inheritance from The Lord.
All these words doesn’t negate the fact that it is not essential to have kids or marriage to be fulfilled. That’s the contention. I think everyone here is smart enough to realize this isn’t about any one shitting on marriage or kids.
Judging by these responses...
Natural selection is real
We as free individuals can choose what we do, and whether the reason is moral or simply logical. There's no hierarchy in that, you're not superior depending on your choice. I love my kids, but would be perfectly fine otherwise. I would simply do other stuff, and would probably take more risks. As simple as that
This is the very reason why argumentation ethics, propertarianism, and the NAP exist.
A fair point. What I am saying relates to arguments I have seen from a number of people in and around this core discussion. You are right that no one is specifically shitting on marriage and children. I am responding to what they *are* saying.
Also, the use of the word "essential" was only in one of his recent posts on the matter but there are other posts he has made that got equally hostile responses.
For what it is worth, I personally would say that marriage and family are *essential* for a society but *normative* for the individual.
I don't particularly care if this specific civilization continues in its current form. I value my personal freedom more than the abstract future.
Well said sir!
Very
Morals are obviously objective. Always. The minute you claim morality is subjective you’ve turn everything into a preference. Raping and Torturing small children for fun? Not morally wrong just strongly disliked.
Unless you have a transformative spiritual life that produces beyond a family (A priest being father to a parish) you're going to be hard pressed to find a vocation with a greater calling than to become husband and father. Seriously, what could you be doing now or in the future that's more important? What are the vast majority doing that's more important? Working a 9-5 (or more), playing video games and watching TV/Youtube?
100%. Libertarianism asserts when an individual is ethically permitted to employ force against another. Other than rejecting the initiation of force, libertarianism makes no claim on how individuals should live their life. For that, you need another framework
The Bible is the source of truth and God establishes the moral standard.
View quoted note →Kindly consider those who desperately want them, and are for whatever reason, denied. OFC there are many unwanted children in this world to adopt.
Yes, absolutely. I'm not arguing that there aren't any objectively *good* (meaning justified) reasons to not have children. There are. I am arguing that there also exists objectively *bad* reasons to not have kids. Infertility or other issues that prevent someone from having children is a justified reason for not having them (and a hard providence that I have a great deal of sympathy for).
This is the fun part about the philosophy of morality: people don’t agree.
Subjective moralists go their way; objective moralists go another. And we get to see the fruits that are borne from each school.
Complex civilizations don’t trend toward success in moral ambiguity. People have nothing to point towards—they have to figure everything out. “Create” their own morality. Not impossible, but not scalable.
If and only if objective morality exists.
If objective morality exists then we just have a case of the tragedy of the commons. And in that case then my personal freedom ends where the survival of our civilization begins.
Either way, today, nothing changes unless y'all can enact your morality police on me. Good luck with that.
I don’t disagree with anything you just said. But the idea that those things are essential and necessary for fulfillment and meaning in life is just wrong. And there are a million other lifestyle alternatives than “video games and weed.” If someone wants to be that rigid and dogmatic about how one derives purpose, meaning and fulfillment, that’s fine but then they shouldn’t call themselves an “individualist” and a “freedom maximalist.” Bottom line is people don’t like being told that they need to act, behave and be a certain way.
Morality is judgement by men. It has nothing to do with God. Good and evil are that which serve or thwart mankind's virtuosity, and God's blessings. His laws are the fabric of reality itself, they lead you to perfection and unity with your heavenly Father.
