Thread

It's better at being digital cash

It is a privacy coin, which is why it's being banned by governments and CEXs.

Governments don't like it you say! That's enough a reason for me to get into it!

I would recommend checking out a whole host privacy projects. Many are bunk, but some, particularly zero knowledge by default, are where it's at. Monero definitely has the largest market for privacy coins. People actually spend it, however it is not as private as people believe. It obfuscates data rather than encrypt it. 11current decoys, not much. Its going to be upped to 100 soon but even that is not much. Definitely check out pirate chain and darkfi as well

It's private, fungible, and very cheap to use. A better digital *cash* Specifically, you cannot see amounts or receivers on the Moneros blockchain. Completely hidden using "Confidential Transactions" and "Stealth Addresses". IP address is also hidden by default using "Dandelion++" Senders are obfuscated with "Ring Signatures" (15 decoys + real spender). After one hop from a transaction you have a less than a percent chance of guessing a spender (0.4%). After two hops (0.02%). Even if you figure out who sent a transaction somehow you won't know how much was sent or to whom. Only that they sent a Monero.

That sounds incredible! Any weakness points you can think of? Thanks for commenting!

Although I agree with you about sender privacy being relatively weaker than it's other tech - this is not completely true, Ven Amounts and receivers on Monero *are* encrypted and completely hidden. They're not merely obfuscated. The only thing obfuscated is spenders. So the most you could theoretically know is someone spent Monero. Not *how much* or to *whom* it was sent. Also, minor thing but, current decoys are at 15+1 real. Meaning after one hop from a transaction the chance of randomly guessing a spender is already less than a percent (~0.4%) I definitely am looking forward to full-chain membership proofs to address this, but it is not as dire as it is sometimes made to seem at this moment in time

Ring signatures are *relatively* weaker compared to it's two other tech layers. They're vulnerable to targeted statistical attacks because it is only obfuscation - they're not hidden with encryption like amounts and receivers are. But full-chain memberships proofs are coming with the next major upgrade "Seraphis" which will get rid of ring signatures completely and resolve this. Keep in mind, in practice, there has never been any documented case of someone being prosecuted or discovered because ring signatures failed them. A weak point for sure, but not as dire right now as some make it seem. It's mostly theoretical or future points of worry.

Does it have fixed supply like 21M BTC?

My pleb understanding is bitcoin is a crypto-asset whose value comes from capped supply, censorship resistence, and immutable ledger. Many people hold bitcoin to accrue and store wealth, and that means many hold it to get rich. Some people hold it to spend it but most use it as digital gold. Monero is a crypto-currency whose value comes from its users desire for private spending. Many people use monero to spend it. I have never sensed a get rich vibe from that crew. That its supply is not limited doesnt matter to this crowd. They use it like digial cash.

Thank you for clarifying!

I think of this quote from Fluffy Pony https://twitter.com/fluffypony/status/1052095452651376640 Mimble wimble, while it scales better, is not private at all, and zcashs implementation of optional zksnarks created vulnerabilities for the whole chain ,shielded and unshielded. While people dont like the trusted setup procesa, it was well documented, and the implementation of Zksnarks by default on all transactions by pirate chain was ideal. Darkfi is inplementing halo2 trustless zk, with smart contracts and merge mining with monero randomX

I recommend checking out amir taaki's comments on various privacy coins, while he is fond of the monero community he is vocal about the need to improve its privacy

I recommend watching this interview, amir goes in on most privacy coin protocols

Amir Taaki is awesome and both of your criticisms of moneros weak spot (spender privacy) is valid for sure. He is the one who partially spurred talk and action of improving it on Moneros github. Wish I could find the thread again

yeah amir is really awesome, and you are too Saberhagen, i appreciate my conversations with you!

also got to shout put The Dollar Vigilante and Crypto Vigilante, they put out a lot of great information, especially in their subscription

MimbleWimble is actually similar to Monero in the fact that both amounts and addresses are not visible at all. Even Fluffys project Tari uses MimbleWimble. MimbleWimbles spend privacy is even worse than Monero though because they don't even have ring signatures. So you 100% know someone made a spend (but still not how much or to whom). But a good thing about MW is that if the data is not collected at the time the transaction occurs that data is gone forever. DarkFi is definitely interesting I just don't know that much about it. I know Amir Taaki is involved and that it is merge mining with Monero now. Here is a chart to visualize privacy leaks with different tech VS scalability: MWCS = MimbleWimble + CoinSwap CoinSwap is not implemented yet on any MW protocol afaik

Amir says mimble wimble claims are false, correlating with another notable article that had come out on mw https://medium.com/dragonfly-research/breaking-mimblewimble-privacy-model-84bcd67bfe52 i'm also very sus of their promotion, i believe they paid shills to push it via epic cash

I listen to both their podcasts all the time! Raph and Jeff!

I've read that one and that article was the one that originally turned me off to MimbleWimble for a long time. But there was a counter article made here by the Grin guys. After giving it another chance and doing more research I became convinced. MW still not as private as ZkSnarks, but a lot more private than that article original suggested. Here is the counter-article. You be the judge: https://medium.com/grin-mimblewimble/factual-inaccuracies-of-breaking-mimblewimbles-privacy-model-8063371839b9

i have read this as well haha and it made me wonder, but then amir said it as well and that swayed me

What did Amir say exactly and when did he say it? I would definitely be interested to read that

its in the interview i linked earlier with TCV

cant pinpoint it now but it happens in first quarter of interview somewhere

Can you try to send me the youtube link to my DMs? For some reason it isn't loading and I can't click it

sent

hello new friend. looks like you found the right crowd for sure. the responses are very good

bitcoin leads in decentralizing finance, Monero leads in privatizing it.

Did you make this chart?

It has less than bitcoin right now, and will have less than bitcoin until the year 2040. It started with less, it does pay the miners a very tiny tail emission to keep the miners going. A very tiny amount.

There are monero enthusiasts here. Monero is better or worse based on your individual situation. If you check my commentary, we have been discussing various points that you might get value from. If you study both, you will be that much better for it. Plenty of benefits to learning and using both coins.

There are zero ways it is worse than bitcoin. So anything bitcoin does Monero does better.

i can't see what chart you are referring to

ah mb nvm

Na, the Grin guys made it, but it is a good chart to visualize privacy leaks for those techs

Multisig is the only thing that comes to mind. It's not easy even tho it's now finally possible. Best part of monero is it's been around a while, has, many contributors and proven to incrementally update and evolve to increase privacy and decentralizion so that it can't be shutdown. It's also very unique in that there's a million different coins out there trying to compete and no coins with a good track record have what people need in the digital age. Privacy.