Ztrash!!!😵‍💫 Everybody wants to rule the world

Never met one. But judging by that post they seem like tools.

annoying this zcash shit. washing money through zcash -> lightning.

Not tired of X people yet?

Amazing you’re still on X

It is I guess

first time hearing of Zcash.

Is this her?

About the Author – Eat Meat. Not Too Little. Mostly Fat.

It appears so, but not sure if she's worth the energy debating.

X (formerly Twitter)

zooko🛡🦓🦓🦓 ⓩ (@zooko) on X

This is apparently a four and a half hour conversation about human health, nutrition, and linguistics, but the first five minutes is about Zcash! 😊

do they not realize anybody can ask ai --- At launch, Zcash diverted 20% of each block reward away from miners for the first four years. Miners received the other 80%. That 20% went to early stakeholders: founders, employees, the Electric Coin Company, the Zcash Foundation, and early investors — including VC-backed investors. Because Zcash had a Bitcoin-like 21 million supply schedule, that first-four-year allocation amounted to about 2.1 million ZEC, or 10% of the total eventual supply. Critics called it a mining tax because it was enforced by the protocol: miners had to pay it automatically in every block. Supporters argued it funded development, security, research, and ecosystem growth. After the first halving in 2020, the original Founders’ Reward ended and was replaced by a new development fund, still taking 20% of block rewards, but no longer paying the original founders/investors in the same way.

Zcash is not private and it’s not decentralized - initial research was literally funded by DARPA and Israeli intelligence. No crypto can get any worse than that… might as well be a CBDC

Who believs that #AISlop

Is this called a premine? No, not in the strict sense. A premine means coins minted (or allocated) *before* the public network launches — insiders hold a balance the moment block 1 goes live, before anyone else can mine. Zcash didn't do that. At block 1, supply was zero. Every ZEC, including the Founders' Reward portion, was issued through normal block emission after launch. The accurate terms are "Founders' Reward," "founders' tax," or more neutrally a "block reward allocation" or "dev tax." Critics sometimes call it a "slow premine" or "post-mine" because the economic effect resembles a premine — a fixed cut of supply going to insiders on a predetermined schedule — but the mechanism is different: it's enforced in consensus per block rather than handed out before launch. The distinction matters for a few reasons: there was no pre-launch insider balance that could be dumped on day one, the allocation was fully disclosed and capped, and it ended on schedule at the first halving (the post-2020 dev fund is a separate decision by the community, not a continuation of the original deal). Whether that makes it meaningfully better than a premine is the actual debate — but terminologically, "premine" is wrong.

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It's still an allocation of new supply to sepcific people and not based on proof of work. Distinction without a difference...

Yes it deserves to be called a premime even if it doesn't meet this semantic definition. There are insiders benefitting at the expense of all other users end of story.

Words have meaning. If it's not fair, but not a premine, call it something else. Describe it. I don't think it is the same as premine though - it has direct feedback loop to performance - the new coins are worthless if they are not doing good job, so it's a proof of (other kind of) work. If the coin does not perform, it's gone to shit. It makes literally no sense to use a word that means something else to describe something just because you don't like it. Criticize it with the right words, otherwise it's human slop.

No I think it fits the definition of premine. I explained it above.

agree, its clearly a premine the allocation was set pre launch it just had a gradual unlock for premine funds being available

if anyone got coins for who they were, it was premined.

holy shit

Premine with a lockup period.

Semantics.

Indeed. People arguing it wasnt a premise are hiding behind language. It’s the same thing no matter what one chooses to call it or the subtle nuances that change when someone can sell.

It’s the same concept. Slight nuances. You’re using language to obfuscate reality because you don’t want the branding. It’s disingenuous at best.

People who say it isn’t are claiming so bc they want to escape the brand implications. They are either disingenuous or dumb. It’s the same as a premine.

another option is that they're smarter and see nuance that you can't.

Distinction without a difference.

Another option is you're retarded.

Speaking of retarded, let me make it simple for you. premine. pre, mined. --- pre-, from the Latin proposition and adverb prae; meaning: before, in front of; covering both time (earlier than) and space (in front of, ahead of). was some ZEC allocated before (prae) the mining? no. ergo, a premine it cannot be. is that simple enough for you or should I try the eli5 version instead?

Where did the ecash tokens come from? They were mined by satoshi. Reallocating tokens he mined is pre mining. You're just retarded. Don't get into a semantics bullshit game. The only difference is they wait because they say so, not because they have to work to get them. Mining is just a word we have used to abstract distribution of supply. These coins were not "mined" with proof of work. They are new coins being distributed. That's "mining". It's happening before the chain goes to mainnet. Before means "pre" Stfu

Fuck off with your backdoored zionCash bullshit.

"don't get into a semantics bullshit game", says the angry soyboy with an atitude problem before he entirely redefines what mining means. everyone else is telling you something. your arrogance prevents you from listening. probably compensating for something there, eh? call it a dev tax, which is what it is. if you call it a premine then congratulations, you've just erased the difference between mining in private before launch and allocating a portion of block rewards for development (neither of which I'm a fan of, but that's besides the point). maybe that's good enough for you. for others who are more precise about language, semantics and etymology, it isn't.

It’s clearly not pre mined coins… I don’t understand the confusion here…

stupidity with a dash of arrogance. that's all it is.

How does Ethereum get mined now? Does it require energy expendature?

You are telling me something. Everyone is telling you something. Who is the arrogant one?

Pre mint. Happy? It's the same thing...

It’s literally a dev tax call it what it is… No need to change definitions…

Not changing definitions. Mining is just an abstract term supply distribution through block creation. This is supply distribution... Through block creation.... And it's being decided before mainnet launch. Premining...

some people are so arrogant because they're masking insecurity, that they will never admit they're wrong on something, as this would break their self-identity of "smart, confident".

Dawg... Look in a mirror...

Premining happens before the mainnet launch to the general public to mine… it’s not hard coded into the mining rewards like a dev tax…

Short Zcash when all the VC money leaves. Simple 😭

The ZEC was allocated before it was mined. That’s a premine. Allocation PRE, before, mining. Programmatic allocation pre being mined. They did no mining work to get them. They simply assign the coins programmatically to be allocated to them once someone else mined them. Before they were mined, they were already allocated Pre mining allocation. A pre mine

Imagine going in to bat for Zcash after all these years 😂

as explained elsewhere: no, not a premine. and none of this is defending or not defending zcash by the way, it's defending truth and accuracy in language. a PREMINE is when you MINE in secret/private before a launch to secure some supply for insiders. a DEV TAX is when a portion of block rewards after launch is diverted to insiders. the end result may be the same (insiders get part of the supply), but the mechanism IS NOT the same! therefore, it's sloppy and innacurate to call them by the same name, which is what Juraj has been pointing out to you savages all along! consider: one could even have a premine (portion mined in private before launch) along a dev tax (after launch, a portion of block rewards to insiders). if you distort the language and call those two things the same, how could you speak about the case where they both happen? think how normies routinely conflate price increases with "inflation". inflation is the.. well, inflation of the money supply. *that* causes prices to rise. if you think sloppily about it, as most normies do, you never understand the cause, and you fall for things like " inflation is lower now" (no it isn't, the supply is permanently inflated, it's the rate of inflation, not inflation itself, that was allegedly lowered). see where sloppily using language gets you? if the definitions are corrupt, you can't reason properly. so use language properly. call this what is. a dev tax, not a premine.

premines dont have to be secret most were not secret, you just made that up

yeah they don't, but also, I never said they had to. why don't you address the rest of the argument? do you find fault with it?

calling zcash a “fair launch” and comparing it to bitcoin is insane gaslighting just own it investors and founders got a massive allocation with a lockup

If the launch needs a glossary to explain why insiders got paid before users, it was not fair. It was marketing with a vesting schedule.

bro I think we can skip straight to " z cash is cool technically but it's not decentralized "

see, that's your issue right there, and you seem to be blind to it. many others exhibited similar behavior. you've already decided a priori that zcash is haram, and part of the haram is that it had a "premine" (except not really, it was a dev tax, not a premine, as I have established beyond reasonable doubt to anyone arguing in good faith). so you want zcash to be "bad" as a foregone conclusion, and that's why you erroneously insist on the premine angle (it isn't, it's a dev tax), and why you've a) not rebuked my argument and b) deflected and whatabouted constantly on every round (like the other two guys). to see the nuance is to potentially taint the haram label you've preemptively placed and already a priori concluded must be true, so you don't, and this makes your reasoning fallacious. I invite you to do the following: read all my notes in this thread again, including the one you just replied to, and tell me where I: 1) claim or not claim that zcash had a "fair launch" 2) am defending zcash 3) claim or not claim that a dev tax is a reasonable thing. you people are missing the entire point because your biases compromise your chain of thought. Juraj pointed that out, but you didn't listen. I'm pointing it out, but you're still not listening. the full extent of what I have been saying is exactly what I have argued, not more, not less: it's innacurate and sloppy to call a dev tax a premine, for the reasons I've already explained and won't bother repeating again. it's you who has a predetermined conclusion to prove which makes you put words in my mouth like saying I called zcash a fair launch - again, I invite you to tell us exactly where I claimed that. you won't be able to, because I claimed no such thing. the only thing I claimed, and I stand by it: calling a dev tax a premine is sloppy and innacurate.

that is true, but not what's being discussed here (although a few don't seem to be able to see that). all can be true simultaneously: cool tech, not decentralized, not a premine, bitcoin onchain for "human rights" = lol. in fact, if you ask me, they are indeed all true simultaneously. but they needn't have been. the focus here is that calling a dev tax a premine is incorrect, even if the end result turns out to be more or less the same (same in the sense insiders get a part of the supply, not the same in that the insider's supply comes at once (premine) or trickles slowly (dev tax).

i dont know why you want to litigate the definition of "premine", its beside the point. whatever it was, the question is "does it make it unsafe for human rights usage?" assuming that's why gladstein is "so sick of z Cash people." so seems like gladstein and Matt want to argue that it does. which is why I'm telling you that is actually what's being discussed here. anyway, isnt Amber zookos wife?

Feds vs feds lol We go the Zionist pervert upset that the CIA is shilling zcash to people lolol