yeah, i completely agree that relay policy should match consensus. it’s better for all, a true common good, to have everyone on the same page with relays/mempool/et al since satoshi, and for 16 yesrs, the answer for addressing the use of arbitrary data was the with relay policy. this last year has proven that given the dynamics of nodes and miners, that was not the correct solution. i think the key here is that it wasn’t addressed at consensus. it’s wasn’t an affirmative case for any particular data carrier size, it just said nothing. as long as data carrier size in answered at protocol consensus, then that solves the fee estimation, block propagation, miner stuff, whether it’s 0 or 4mb. so we are back at the essential question i asked, it’s the only question, only issue: “how much data should be allowed to do whatever anyone wants with it?” personalities dont matter, intention doesnt matter. what X person did bad, doesnt matter non-rational arguments about “what is spam” or “censorship resistance” dont matter what is the affirmative case for how much block space can be used to anchor/embed/anything goes? while i personally have never needed to anchor or embed anything, i understand there is real utility in being able to timestamp a hash or something small. so 83, even 166 probaly is some optimal goldilocks allowance for arbitrary data. it’s just space for anything goes. i get that, and it makes total sense for making bitcoin an amazing network. i think having a small op_return makes bitcoin a more valuable network to people but you get much bigger than that, and you lose me entirely. 100,000 is insane. the whole block is just a dump, no that fundamentally breaks something in bitocin. that turns the network into a third world shit hole, that’s actually bad for all people on the network. they are selling long term sustainability for short term gain. but we can’t have this discussion because the debate has devolved into 12 year old girls yelling at each other, and 10,000 red herrings and strawmen.

right now, consensus says nothing on the matter and lets the relay policy do all the talking. consensus needs to speak up, one way or the other. that fixes all the issues with mempools, miner fee estimations, block propagation, et al. and then we have legit consensus on data carrier size, everyone on same page. if we give a fuck about bitcoin at all, we should only be discussing in the affirmative, why one particular data carrier size is right, in order to work out consensus, to make the butter. rationally dialogue back and forth. should it 0 or uncapped? or something in between? there is a right answer. an answer that makes the network maximally valuable. it exists not in your head or in mine, but between us all. and if a person cannot make the affirmative case for what number they think is best, that speaks louder than words. they either lack the rational capacity for dialogue and should ostracized and shunned until they stfu. or they are bad/hostile actors. either way, children don’t belong at the adult table. i honestly don’t give a shit what number any person says, as long as they make the affirmative case for it. just be honest and say how much and why. whether people know it or not, they are answering that question with their actions. most people don’t even know that’s the question because they are debating whether sally said sue had a fat ass at gym. or debating self contradictory arguments about too busy tilting at windmills about “what is spam?” or “what is censorship?” if we are too fucking retarded to get it right, then we deserve this fiat hellscape we inhabit. @Samson Mow @Matthew Kratter @ODELL @jimmysong @TFTC @Daniel Prince @Brandon Gentile @BitcoinAnja @HODL @walker @Jameson Lopp @Luke Dashjr @jack @UNCLE ROCKSTAR

The discussion ended last year and we moved on to more important matters. Fork around and find out.

looololol, ever heard of Citrea : ))))?

Gaslighting for Coretards : ))) is the above and the truth is below, the Citrea who launched a shitcoin on top of Bitcoin and all facilitated by Core and their malware Core V30+