As much as I think this is a useful development for a lot of people, especially in the developing world - it’s also a huge banner for regulators that says “CHECK HOW OBVIOUSLY MONEY TRANSMITTING WE ARE!”
If Lightning is left to only bitcoin, I think it can be more easily argued that it is separate and unique in construction and should also be in the regulatory framework. But if it’s being used to move dollars around, I think we lose a massive edge in maintaining that perception. All they will see is a dollar payment network where they cannot see into all of the accounts, can’t KYC every user, and can’t freeze the payments. And they will do everything they can to gain that level of control, and far worse likely, if they have such a clear target.
Replies (33)
I don't know, maybe this is just me, but I don't understand the obsession with putting stable coins on everything. Imo stable coins are just as worthless as fiat.
Ooh I just transmitted all over your note 😁
💯
Damn true!
This note gave me such a raging transmission that I almost shot transmission fluid all over Jeff.
@Magoo PhD was raving about this issue a year or two ago and nobody cared. Pepperidge Farm remembers.
The term "stablecoin" is a lie when it's constantly losing value. People need to start calling them "digital dollars" or something.
Let me translate: it’s a stupid move and it’s borderline shitcoiner attitude. It will make our life’s harder mid term.
So we should just hold back all development because the government might decide to perceive lightning in a slightly more favorable light, maybe, if they're not having a bad day that day?
This is the opposite of cypherpunk. Lightning is obviously transmitting money. It is foolish to pretend otherwise.
The state attacks will continue until the leviathan is exhausted. They don't have a consistent legal framework. The framework itself is the attack vector. They will contort it in any way that suits their agenda. We can't win this fight playing by their rules.
TapAss moves every stablecoin user one step closer to a bitcoin standard. We will coopt the dollar and put it on bitcoin rails. Embrace, extend, extinguish. This is the path to victory.
Maybe our legislature can stop twiddling their thumbs and actually provide some regulatory clarity around stablecoins that would actually differentiate the assets.
Why are they putting shitcoins on lightning?
Yeah a number of people have had reservations for a while and I always felt there was a strong basis to be skeptical about how much this helps us.
Not even slightly implied by my comment, imo. We simply should focus on building things for bitcoin, not for dollars.
What's the point? Aren't these stablecoins/tokens centrally backed? #Aqua wallet already offers liquid tether; isn't that enough? Is VC funding driving development of a shitcoin casino at lightning labs? Maybe spend a little more time on things like #Bolt12, and being a more cooperative player with the other implementations. Just sayin'
This does not help us …at all…it actually does the opposite but retards and spooks willl be retards
Anybody regretting taproot yet? 🤔
smells spooky.
🤦♂️
The Lightning network can transmit anything, but it can only transmit Bitcoin trustlessly.
Afaik, the system requires conversion to and from Bitcoin to make maximum use of the network, so it will be used to send Bitcoin only. The trust and currency will remain at the edges... just like Strike.
I just think it is dumb for Lightning Labs who champions LND, to favour development here instead of working on the protocol and things like BOLT12. 🤷
Who would’ve imagined that building on Bitcoin is an attack vector from the state. This makes it clear to me that it doesn’t matter if LightningLlabs has good intentions, the state can do it with a shell in order to push regulation.
No. It was a net improvement. Spam and degen activity is just that, that crowd has always been looking for ways to make their schemes work on Bitcoin and they would have found another way if this wasn't it.
bitcoin is the only stable monetary unit
also, USDT is a trojan horse for world's dollarization, aka keeping the music going and making the gap between rich and poor bigger
And they invite regulators into the bitcoin world.
There is no need to port stablecoin to lightning. No one is complaining g about high fees or slow txt time. Stark is done
Thinking out loud about this as no one can really know, but it seems like the L2 block size war will play out just like the L1.
They can make their own lightning implementation expecting to regulate the entirety of all transactions but I don't think that will happen.
Bitcoin being for everyone means we have to share the main chain with the fiat shitcoiners, who will use their own L2 to KYC transact whatever they want (ordinals, stablecoins, etc)
Meanwhile we will keep creating an alternative to this lightning/legacy system that enhances privacy and inclusion.
We always knew this would be a fight but perhaps we didn't realize how close to home it would be as we are dueling on top of bitcoin core.
The greatest lie is the one closest to the truth, so they are trying to deceive people by disguising themselves as bitcoin core directly, rather than a competitor.
when the only tool you have is the fiat printer, every problem becomes money transmission
Everyone keeps arbitrarily claiming that all of this is possible because of taproot and it’s really not that relevant. Nothing about inscriptions, stablecoins, tokens, ordinals, stamps, etc were specifically made possible because of taproot.
Being able to create tokens inside a tap script only makes them way more efficient, which is exactly what we want anyway when it comes to making bullshit. We want it to do as little damage or friction as possible for the base layer. Stamps, inscriptions and the bare multisig crap *should* be created inside a rap script so it’s actually using the chain in a sensible way. But part of why they *like* those methods is because they are explicitly toxic and cause the most bloat and computational cost on the chain. The entire goal is to waste space and resources. Taproot has nothing to do with it, nor does it fix people being stupid assholes.
I don’t know of anything that can only be done because of taproot among all of the things that have been sort of thoughtlessly blamed on it in the past year or so.
Perhaps, but did we have to let the Rothschild Horse into the citadel?
That’s not how Liz Stark talks about it but. Specifically stablecoins on L1 weren’t economically viable, but now are with Taro via Taproot.
But more importantly: How do I get my node to opt out of these stablecoin slave tokens? Why am I being forced into supporting the fiat slavery machine through my node?
The term “stablecoin” has always been misleading to me, fiat money is continually debased and losing value.
I guess this debasement predictability is a stable one 🤷♀️
Afaik, you transmit sats. All the magic happens at the edges.
It's like you might be facilitating the trade of helium balloons but you hate helium balloons... who cares, the details are none of your business, you either want the fees to push sats or you don't. You don't get to choose what the sats were used for.
