Preach!

This could be Nostr's unique feature set that entices entire communities!

Yeah #coracle does this pretty well out-of-the-box..... Have yet to find a mobile client that does ?

Yakihonne has wot in the content moderation settings now. Nostur on iOS has for a while as well.

Get this right and nostr daily average user count will climb from 10-20 thousand to billions

Wen SovEng WoT cohort? 🙏🏼

Absolutely. This needs to happen!

No lies detected.

On it 🫡

Developing WoT will also help organic social discovery of new v4v music

Absolutely 🔥🔥🔥

HUGE FAX 📠 View quoted note →

Are people developing modular solutions that can be bolted on by vibe coders?

Nothing that's templated in Shakespeare, but you could use Shakespeare to build this. Perhaps we could look into using Welshman for this @hodlbod.

No algos here, just ways for you filter out all the crap. Also you can see what other people like and decide whether or not you want to check it out

Relays or client side? the WoT we're gonna need when the AI bot army invades. I'm inclined to push logic to the relay side, but curious to know if in-note client side could do it. still studying the protocol for options

For music, I would say put it on the relay side. A single music-focuses relay would be enough to service everyone. Of course more music relays would help decentralized but having it relay-side deploys it widely, faster than client side. Most clients will not be music specific but having it relay-side unlocks music wot for everyone that connects to it.

on the relay side, yes. I'm busy writing my 4th relay. Some I don't think can be controlled well for WoT on the client side, tbh, depending on the size of the group. these are all modular solutions, that can be bolted on by vibe coders.

Nostr Micro Project Week

4 micro projects I released open source for the community

but you'll need to know how to deploy it on your on vps and use cli.

Paging @ChadF and 33 others and @Sir Libre to see if they can use any of this info. Im too nondev to deploy this.

@npub1gfh3...alqc as well

Why do we need moderation tools? Isn’t moderation censorship?

@npub1gfh3...alqc The WOT thing is cool but we already have that and it's called V4V music shows. I built an enter apps around them. TLDR collected every track they played and added those tracks and the rest of the albums they are from to the app. This app is a monster so it's not my flagship app but here it is. music.podtards.com We've been combing through the V4V music catalog for 2 years and making shows from the best of the best. Listeners can also submit tracks they like to said shows so we have data to seed our apps. Still wrapping my head around how we add WOT to things. I want to see what people are actually listening to or not lol. We're also kind of just waiting to see what y'all do with it with things like Podstr and ZapTrak by Derek Ross.

No, moderation isn't censorship. Community moderation tools allow the users of the community to have control over what content their community sees. It gives them personal control over their feed and their attention. At the same time, the person that's being moderated can still say whatever they want and create whatever they want. Free speech doesn't mean the world has to see your content and read it, it means that the world can see your content and can read it if they want to. My front door is kind of a moderator. It keeps unwanted people out. If I allow you in, you can come in. And if you want to stand outside on the street and preach about why you think cats are superior to dogs, you can do so all night long, I just don't let you inside my house to do it. You win. You get to preach. I win. I don't have to hear it. Moderation works the same way. Censorship would be the cops arresting you in the street for speaking or a client banning you for posting.

I think any wot integration is a future iteration. Worth it to start thinking and exploring now but we dont have the tools ready yet for nondevs like us to deploy

I think for music listening and sharing we just need something simple like the Fountain charts and the Top100 podcastindex has. The DeMu crew already knows what's good and what's not in the index so we're just using that knowledge to seed our stuff and filter it down like we've been doing with LNBeats.com over the years. LNBeats is basically just the podcastindex site but only shows music. Just raw data with only obvious spam and stuff that's tagged as music that isn't really just a mp3 filtered out. My apps are also curated by me or purpose built like itdv.podtards.com. TLDR we need more music apps!!!!

Using the podcasters to curate works to a degree. It works really well right now. But as this space scales up in terms of users, we will need more people curating music. The curation cant just come from a handful of podcasters because they simply cannot cover all tastes and genres. I think if people have the ability to chose their own algos or create custom ones, that makes things very powerful. Wot is a quick easy way to enable this. Just like you can plug in and connect to whatever relays you want, I have a vision for being able to choose your own algo engine in the same way. Power to the people should be the default. We should strive for solutions that put the choice of discovery algo in their hands.

There's been talks of using genre tags in the past but no one could come to an agreement on a list. @Sir Libre is building tagging into his app and those tags are what I'm going to use in the future since it's what we have. He added it and we like it so that's what we're using. Ideally the artist would add the tags so we can just find "metal" but we need a standard list or it won't go anywhere and SirLibre has that list started. You can even add your own as a users to help out. Love the "when this gets big" mindset but I've also been doing the PC 2.0 stuff for 5 years and the DeMu stuff for over 2 and it's very very very slow but we just need one new person at a time that gets it and they are out there. We need active participants right now since the tech at least on the 2.0 side is solid and battle tested and a great jumping off point. Lots of potential and we're entering a bull market it feels like with this stuff but this has all happened before over the past 3 years with music so we're a little jaded tbh so we need some POW from people all around. That's simply just listing to some new tracks in Fountain. @Mike Neumann has a Mikes Mix Tape music podcast that's 99.9% music and a collect of the hits over time so check it out and see what grabs your attention because you'd be surprised of the quality of music in the ValueVerse. *podcast link not posted so I don't lose this War and Peace (iykyk) post by switching apps. **edits/drafts that work would be nice so I could post or save this and add it later but I'm taking a walk and typing on my phone so this is it. #touchpuddles 🌧️

This argument is antithetical to the entire history of free speech jurisprudence and common law. In Marsh v. Alabama, it was ruled (in line with all previous precedent) that privately owned roadways and sidewalks had to allow religious pamphleters, even though it is private property. The court asserted that anywhere that is the forum for public discussion is de facto allowed for political and religious speech regardless of property rights. In the very early days of the Internet things changed, when people tried to assert First Amendment claims on Compuserve chats. Compuserve claimed they weren't the public square, that they were a private service. I think they were correct, in that Compuserve was a very marginal private space and couldn't possibly have been "the public square". But precedent over this tiny service were eventually laundered into much larger and more critical bits of social infrastructure. In contrast to Compuserve, Twitter and Facebook are definitely the public square. You cannot petition for a redress of grievances or lobby for policy changes without using them. If Nostr is successful, it will also be the public square. And the political left delights in suppressing their opponents on them but files lawsuits claiming their rights are infringed when they aren't given access to every inch -- such as when they sued Trump for blocking them on his Twitter account:

Supreme Court tosses dispute over Trump blocking critics on Twitter

The former president was sued by seven Twitter users whose accounts he blocked after they criticized him and his policies.

This hypocrisy must quickly end, or we as a country will end up in a violent conflict. There must be open, public debate on every major platform, and Americans must be entitled to express their opinions because the only other alternative is violence. Using this line of “it’s private property so nobody has to hear or see you speak” is a subversive lie propagated by international Jewish Communists who owned or otherwise controlled Internet companies via critical staff positions to be able to unilaterally censor criticism of them and their agendas regardless of popular will.

Shadow banning is not “technically” censorship but same difference.

If you're muting someone on behalf of an entire community of 1 million members, that's centralized censorship. Period. Continues are a hard problem to solve. But that's still blatant censorship.

you're thinking about platforms. think in protocols. it's slightly different. the content still exists elsewhere on the network.

Right. So if I mute you, you're not censored. If I use a platform's tool to remove something you posted, you're not censored. Your post is still available on potentially infinite other platforms and relays. For example, if I have a community forum about cars and you post about trees, I'm going to remove it from the community that I moderate. But community platforms that don't have moderation tools would still show it and as I said, it's not technically deleted so your content exists everywhere else. If the platform itself removes or filters out your post, then I could argue it's censorship or shadow banning.

Sometimes "censorship" is a feature. Some of the best Internet communities I have been part of were moderated forums, because they stayed on topic and didn't get filled with garbage posts and trolls. People should have the freedom to make whatever kind of community they want, a 4chan free for all, or one that is moderated as they see fit.

Fully agree with sometimes. Therein lies the complexity. If I brigade 500,000 bots to your community without some filter, it's fucked. Rendered useless. Some barrier is needed. However that same barrier can be used to create an echo chamber (IE Reddit). That's why I say communities are very hard to solve. I don't know the answer yet. But I know mods are definitely not it.

Just maximize freedom. Anyone can make a community as they see fit. You want one for you, your wife and your kids? Feel free. One about how a particular religion pisses you off with no moderation at all? Feel free. You disagree with how someone else runs their particular community and want to start your own with less (or more) restrictive moderation? Feel free. Maximize freedom is the way. Otherwise you're just censoring people's ability to make communities as they see fit.

It's more nuanced than that. Especially in the current age of rampant propaganda. An existing community could have size, and use that size to spread massive lies. Then use moderation to stamp out any fact checking of their lies. Sure, you can create a competing community, but using what reach? Your reach has been stamped out by moderation. Reach matters. Allowing low follower accounts/viewpoints/communities access to the masses is critically important. It prevents the consolidated influence structure that exists today on TradSo.

Who gets to decide what kind of group I can make, and how I'm allowed to moderate it? Is that censorship?

That's not what I'm saying. I'm talking about mechanisms. Human mods are a very bad mechanism. Protocols are better. Just don't know to design one. It's very hard.

But what if someone wants a group with human moderation, not one enforced by an algorithm. Should they be free to have those types of communities still? Or should that freedom be removed?

We should all be able to be in charge of our attention and our feeds. Everyone should be able to have this control.

Ya something to this effect. It's fucking hard to solve tho. I'm not trying to be a dick lol And it's even harder to stop a bot deluge. Either spammers, brigades, influence ops. And it's not even just a Nostr problem, it's all online. I gotta think more on it.

Just seeing Chorus. Cool. It's a very complex topic, gotta think more. I think I know how to solve the "base" Nostr trust issue though. Will try to work on that, and some other Nostr things. Nostr is about to explode.

To bad cut me out of my shit I don’t think so