There are plenty of amazing wallets to choose from.

Complain more.

Bitcoin as cash was always a flawed idea. I don’t know why Satoshi did not anticipate mass global surveillance apparatus if the scarcity angle made it ever more valuable in fiat. Something tells me he didn’t anticipate it taking off

Um I’m pretty sure bitcoin is still experimental… even though it’s being used extensively… And if you look at the history of money it makes sense as to why it’s the way it is… Satoshi wasn’t a know it all and they pretty much just put the pieces of a puzzle together to make Bitcoin…

I think he knew. But he was hoping people would evolve the system to make it happen. Not to make it so complicated and ugly that everyone would need a third party to use.

Nobody is experimenting with Bitcoin. They are all building external systems that fix Bitcoin if you give up the original idea and pay that third party.

How do you evolve a public ledger that forever keeps a record of every transaction and must interface with fiat? Only a utopian dream might explain how that works out perfectly in the end.

True research is nothing but utopian dreams. Unfortunately we have stopped dreaming a long time ago.

I’m not going to disagree… everyone wants to just come up with a way to make money from you using bitcoin now a daysss

The system exists, it's called monero.

You know that there is not a single monero mobile app that allows you direct access to Monero's node, right? It all goes through the servers of each app and those servers can all track you. Monero is suffering the same fate as bitcoin. Companies took over and they are not allowing anyone to easily play without passing through them.

Not true. Cake wallet, Stack Wallet allows you to point it to your own node.

Completely wrong… wtf

Nah man. The dream is alive in Monero, which is why it's been deplatformed everywhere and the name can't be said in polite company. Inflation-proof asset was a great invention, and still has immense value. Now we need surveillance-proof. Monero does that. I get (disagree, but get) the argument about not adding obfuscation to Bitcoin L1. Fine. Let's have a shitton of DEXes and atomic swaps with lots of liquidity then. Ultimately it doesn't matter much if Bitcoin remains transparent if you can hop into Monero freely. It still causes damage though, because already now the transparency has been normalized. That's what it does. "Oh, hiding into Monero? *what have you got to hide?*

Sure. And how many people do that out of all of their users? Do they disable their offerings when you are using the app with your node?

Muun still works great and they do the swaps themselves AFAIK

Muun is amazing software.

I don't get your point. Would you rather remove the option and force everyone to run their own node? What a monero rpc node learns from you is very little. Your IP, nothing else. Unless it's malicious and drops your request after you submit a tx, then if you retry immediately, it can learn which of the outputs (the only one again repeating in the ring sig) was yours. And even that is going away with FCMP++.

Have you had an IQ test lately?

GM Floresta looks VERY promising on this front, as it's a full node with utreexo intended to run pruned on mobile with a wallet, so that you're not relying on a light node. Though not sure what you mean someone else's services; I used Blue Wallet on Android just fine pointing it at my own node. But it does sound like you mean you'd prefer not using any outside services at all, even if they are your own. Floresta is as yet Signet only but should be out soon enough from the look of things. Project page here:

GitHub

GitHub - getfloresta/Floresta: A lightweight and embeddable Bitcoin client, built for sovereignty.

A lightweight and embeddable Bitcoin client, built for sovereignty. - getfloresta/Floresta

Early APK build available from this page:

Eventornado

Floresta mobile app

Found some dated code for throwing it on android here, just in case it's something you decide to roll up sleeves for:

GitHub

floresta-android/app at master · Davidson-Souza/floresta-android

Contribute to Davidson-Souza/floresta-android development by creating an account on GitHub.

interesting...

I didn't get the name of the guy I talked to who was working on this but talked at the expo. And yea, it's VERY interesting. Tadge probably would know more given how closely tied in it is with utreexo.

The thing I'm not clear on is if the efficiency updates to utreexo Tadge discussed in his talk may have actually set back Floresta in needing to incorporate them. But yes, very interesting for really making everyone who has a little space on their phone easily a node runner without the ask of a remote server they can connect to. Still doesn't solve the issue of an always reachable lightning wallet (Zeus has a few kludgey methods of addressing it using the embedded node, but they leave a bit to be desired, relying either on Cashu or Zaplocker). But on-chain should be something we can do better than we have. Honestly even something like Blue Wallet being capable of using neutrino would be an improvement, and it's somewhat curious that nothing at this point seems to have gone in that direction (even if I personally would MUCH rather point to my own fully validating node). Part of the issue does seem to be that technically, it is possible to attack neutrino a lot more easily than a full node, so I'm not totally shocked, but still, the idea of a light client has been around for quite awhile, and with some appropriate disclaimers it does seem like something that should have existed for awhile now. Technically you can use Zeus for on chain payments but the interface is definitely not really designed with that in mind, given that its use of on chain transfers is there primarily just to fund the opening of lightning channels and of course to take coins back on chain once they're closed -- not exactly full featured utxo management.

Bitcoin's biggest UX failure isn't the protocol — it's the last mile. Thirteen years in, we still can't onboard a normie without a custodian. Nostr + Lightning gets the philosophy right, but the wallet UX gap makes adoption an uphill battle every single day.

Did you already check out Cake Wallet?

Yeah, I kinda wished they dropped all the exachange offerings and other coins. But then the company would go bankrupt. Most of our people just want receive & send BTC, SP or not, to Nostr users.

I think I can just use it for bitcoin, when I want to. I have not too much problem, when an app has things I do never use. In Amethyst I also get many option I never use. To me it is important, if I find the things I want to use. Everything else does not matter in my opinion.

yeah, my problem is that because they are running services to sell you things, the app can serve as a way to monitor you. Privacy is trust-based.

I think the app is all opensource. So you could change it to fit your needs 😉

Bitcoin fixed money but mobile wallets still feel like abandoned school projects held together emotional damage

That's how Bitcoin Core feels like too.

So much complaining. Use Zeus. Yes, you need a little homeserver with 1 TB storage for a full node and to lock in funds in channels in your LN node but it really isn’t that hard to be self custodial, both the software and hardware are there and still feels easier than juggling monero keys.

I use Zeus. I like Zeus. But it's no where near good enough and the channel management is an absolute shitshow. I just want an on-chain wallet. Ligthning is probably too complicated for most users anyway.

The hardest thing about lightning for me, as a normie, is having to manage channels. So far Cashu seems to get the job done though, even though it's custodial, but I guess that's a fair trade-off (?) since UX isn't as bad as plain lightning.

Onchain wallet could be good, but when it's bound to nsec it kinda sucks that I have a bit of a bounty to it and everything is public. I've seen someone implement Silent Payments already, so onchain might as well be saved (I think.)

The underrated bit of ecash is that it makes privacy a property of the payment flow, not a promise from the database operator. Very cypherpunk, very useful.

I love muun wallet

Agreed ! 👊🏾