A recap of the OP_RETURN "debate"
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Core: Filters don't work.
Bitcoiners: They obviously do, otherwise you wouldn't need to remove them.
Core: We don't have the technical means t maintain them, so we're removing the limit.
Bitcoiners: We gave you the technical means in a PR two years ago, Core rejected it, it was implemented in Knots and it works.
Core: We can't stop all spam reliably, so why bother?
Bitcoiners: Because life is not black or white, and fastening your seatbelt when driving a car is safer even though some people die in car crashes.
Core: Here's 7 transactions that even your precious filters didn't catch.
Bitcoiners: Here's 2 million transactions that were caught.
Core: You can't censor valid transactions just because you don't like them. They paid a fee!
Bitcoiners: There's millions of Nigerian princes contacting people through email every day. These are "valid transactions" too, yet you send those to spam. This is obviously not censorship, so that argument is deceitful and intellectually dishonest.
Core: What is spam objectively anyway?
Bitcoiners: The receiver - not the sender - gets to decide what's useful to them. You're removing the ability of nodes to decide that, implying you know best.
Core: These transactions will end up in blocks anyway, and we can't incentivize profit-seeking miners to go out-of-band.
Bitcoiners: It's not your job to incentivize or deter miners. Your job is to work on the Bitcoin client while prioritizing the one thing that makes Bitcoin unique and truly decentralized: nodes.
Core: But we want better fee estimation and block propagation.
Bitcoiners: So do we, but never at the expense of decentralization and self-sovereignty. And btw, there is no such thing as "the mempool. Nodes run the show.
Core: This is a technical discussion. Stop philosophying and using analogies, you plebs!
Bitcoiners: We gave you a technical solution that works, the philosophic rationale and the logical arguments. Stop turning Bitcoin into a shitcoin.
Am I missing anything here? @Bitcoin Mechanic @preston @Gigi @Samson Mow
@jack
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If you're seeing bias here, it's because you're too stubborn to admit that one side is clearly more informed, rational and morally calibrated than the other.
This is why there's distrust in Core. It's got nothing to do with technical competency and rational discourse. It's just pure and simple political shenanigans, whataboutisms, strawman arguments and in some cases sheer lies.
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Replies (19)
Boom. Roasted.
A recap of the OP_RETURN "debate"
------
Core: Filters don't work.
Bitcoiners: They obviously do, otherwise you wouldn't need to remove them.
Core: We don't have the technical means t maintain them, so we're removing the limit.
Bitcoiners: We gave you the technical means in a PR two years ago, Core rejected it, it was implemented in Knots and it works.
Core: We can't stop all spam reliably, so why bother?
Bitcoiners: Because life is not black or white, and fastening your seatbelt when driving a car is safer even though some people die in car crashes.
Core: Here's 7 transactions that even your precious filters didn't catch.
Bitcoiners: Here's 2 million transactions that were caught.
Core: You can't censor valid transactions just because you don't like them. They paid a fee!
Bitcoiners: There's millions of Nigerian princes contacting people through email every day. These are "valid transactions" too, yet you send those to spam. This is obviously not censorship, so that argument is deceitful and intellectually dishonest.
Core: What is spam objectively anyway?
Bitcoiners: The receiver - not the sender - gets to decide what's useful to them. You're removing the ability of nodes to decide that, implying you know best.
Core: These transactions will end up in blocks anyway, and we can't incentivize profit-seeking miners to go out-of-band.
Bitcoiners: It's not your job to incentivize or deter miners. Your job is to work on the Bitcoin client while prioritizing the one thing that makes Bitcoin unique and truly decentralized: nodes.
Core: But we want better fee estimation and block propagation.
Bitcoiners: So do we, but never at the expense of decentralization and self-sovereignty. And btw, there is no such thing as "the mempool. Nodes run the show.
Core: This is a technical discussion. Stop philosophying and using analogies, you plebs!
Bitcoiners: We gave you a technical solution that works, the philosophic rationale and the logical arguments. Stop turning Bitcoin into a shitcoin.
Am I missing anything here? @Bitcoin Mechanic @preston @Gigi @Samson Mow
@jack
-------
If you're seeing bias here, it's because you're too stubborn to admit that one side is clearly more informed, rational and morally calibrated than the other.
This is why there's distrust in Core. It's got nothing to do with technical competency and rational discourse. It's just pure and simple political shenanigans, whataboutisms, strawman arguments and in some cases sheer lies.
View quoted note →
100% Man this is definitely exactly what I gathered after watching a few hours of debate and coming to my own conclusion.
I don't want my Node relaying and storing JPEGS, The end.
I am not knowledgeable enough to have an opinion on the matter, but this is hands down the best summary of the issue I have read.
A recap of the OP_RETURN "debate"
------
Core: Filters don't work.
Bitcoiners: They obviously do, otherwise you wouldn't need to remove them.
Core: We don't have the technical means t maintain them, so we're removing the limit.
Bitcoiners: We gave you the technical means in a PR two years ago, Core rejected it, it was implemented in Knots and it works.
Core: We can't stop all spam reliably, so why bother?
Bitcoiners: Because life is not black or white, and fastening your seatbelt when driving a car is safer even though some people die in car crashes.
Core: Here's 7 transactions that even your precious filters didn't catch.
Bitcoiners: Here's 2 million transactions that were caught.
Core: You can't censor valid transactions just because you don't like them. They paid a fee!
Bitcoiners: There's millions of Nigerian princes contacting people through email every day. These are "valid transactions" too, yet you send those to spam. This is obviously not censorship, so that argument is deceitful and intellectually dishonest.
Core: What is spam objectively anyway?
Bitcoiners: The receiver - not the sender - gets to decide what's useful to them. You're removing the ability of nodes to decide that, implying you know best.
Core: These transactions will end up in blocks anyway, and we can't incentivize profit-seeking miners to go out-of-band.
Bitcoiners: It's not your job to incentivize or deter miners. Your job is to work on the Bitcoin client while prioritizing the one thing that makes Bitcoin unique and truly decentralized: nodes.
Core: But we want better fee estimation and block propagation.
Bitcoiners: So do we, but never at the expense of decentralization and self-sovereignty. And btw, there is no such thing as "the mempool. Nodes run the show.
Core: This is a technical discussion. Stop philosophying and using analogies, you plebs!
Bitcoiners: We gave you a technical solution that works, the philosophic rationale and the logical arguments. Stop turning Bitcoin into a shitcoin.
Am I missing anything here? @Bitcoin Mechanic @preston @Gigi @Samson Mow
@jack
-------
If you're seeing bias here, it's because you're too stubborn to admit that one side is clearly more informed, rational and morally calibrated than the other.
This is why there's distrust in Core. It's got nothing to do with technical competency and rational discourse. It's just pure and simple political shenanigans, whataboutisms, strawman arguments and in some cases sheer lies.
View quoted note →
> Here's 2 million transactions that were caught
Link?
It does and will anyway. Until fees incentives otherwise. Listen to Bitcoin Optech on fountain.. Sounds to me like Core devs don't want dickbutts on chain either, but their rational seems sound to me. What I DONT WANT, is a blind believer in the bible, getting to much influence and going all GOD mode!
Have you listened to latest Bitcoin Optech pod on fountain?
“If you don’t believe me or don’t get it, I don’t have time to try to convince you, sorry.”
nevent1qqsda06kthpra62zyjr6qnjk6l6s2vmq7wmvaktrrvjzcxce8y6y2hgpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuurjd9kkzmpwdejhg3pwlq7
The whole fucking blockchain
nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzqquxdpn0xlh4zqw9k3patfqml9nnndqkyd9e642sfxzlycj5279pqy2hwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnyv9kh2uewd9hj7qghwaehxw309aex2mrp0yh8qunfd4skctnwv46z7qpq2vrutdpaw7d04klkrlk4l4nlj3m5qc96z82sduhjc9rrugu7y7kq6hx88g
I don't leave my door unlocked to let the thieves life easier.
Just but that gate to window they'll smash to get in is fine..
All the "influencer's" making waves (likely for clicks and views). Its a nuaced topic, I highly recommend listening to Bitcoin Optech..
I'm certainly not a "fan" of shitcoins, or jpgs on Bitcoin. But centralisation of mempools that allow them, is a concern..
Thanks for this summary, very informative. It makes sense that any identifiable group that could change Bitcoin would come under the temptation to cash in to a deep pocketed group like the shitcoiners, who have netted billions running an affinity scam around Bitcoin.
We should do a fundraiser for the Knots dev!
What's on blockchain wasn't caught 😉
It doesn't matter. Thieves posses a universal key to open the door even if it's locked (i.e. bitcoin miners).
Sound as a self custody sat!
Hi, we addressed op return in our latest video. Would you ming watching ?
You nailed it. Good job sir. 👌