Well this chart from @River is a ₿anger
Login to reply
Replies (29)
Thanks yes indeed!! Very helpful!
That’s useful. You might also want to share the link to this.
Yeah, wish I’d known this when I was moving each of my DCAs individually to cold storage after every purchase
Yup I am trying to ring the warning bell.
Not your keys is a good first step but it's missing a big price of info
So basically everything that’s below 500k sats is dust anyways in the future. Long term holdings should at least be 1M. Thanks for sharing
Sauce?
There might be use cases down the road that will help smaller utxos, but I don't feel like exploring those. So I feel it's easier to plan now
Personally I think fees will continue to rise in dollar terms but will continue to fall in sats term over longer period.
But it’s better to be prepared for worse.
Nonsense
Well, care to explain why it’s nonsense? Or just trolling?
Important chart for UTXO sizes
Since when are fees going to be permanently so high that a 500k utxo is dust? It sounds like fear mongering. Consolidating, especially of mixed utxo's, is a very poor privacy practice.
Well, there is an argument to be made that tx fees will be higher in the future permanently. Nobody knows but for me it makes sense as corporations and nation states start to use it on a regular basis, that tx fees will never come down to levels we are used to now.
As for your privacy concern, you can mix 1m sats sized UTXOs in Whirlpool. So I don’t understand your point.
Tx fees going up forever is a big blockers argument, and considered inevitable by many with a shitcoin mindset, because the fees (and other proposed ways to reward miners) have to offset declining block rewards. But, has permanent rising fees played out as block size went from 50 to 6.25? No, it has not, you can still get low fees, although it has been harder lately due to unsustainable shenanigans the latest of which being ordinal graffiti. And the reason fees won't inevitably rise is because the value of bitcoin rises.
I mean, you could be right. Your argument of increased price makes sense. I still can see a future where 500sat/vB is permanent. If 50% of the world will want to use Bitcoin, block space will just be too scarce for prices to stay as low as they are. People will have to open and close channels to LN all the time. But we’ll see
100% of the world will use bitcoin and it could cost hundreds of dollars equivalent to move a utxo on the base layer, like take it to the extreme where one sat is worth one of today's dollars. Practically speaking only whales (owning >= 1 whole coin) and layer 3's like fedi's move coin on the base layer to service their lightning nodes.
every time I see a chart like this I immediately imagine a chorus of Bitcoiners laughing at poor people and telling them they got the price they deserved.
View quoted note →
There you go. You just said it yourself: 500k sats will be dust.
I don’t believe that only whole coiner will be able to transact on-chain. I think 1m sats will always be economically viable.
?? In that hypothetical, 500k sats would be the equivalent of half a million today's dollars
Valuable chart in terms of protecting your UTXOs. In the past when massive amounts of dust transactions have belonged to a single entity they have worked with miners to run large consolidation transactions that would otherwise not make it into the mempool.
You said only whole coiner and L3s will be able to make on-chain txs. That implies that 500k sats are dust.
The real question is @River when Nevada?
I feel this. Did the same thing. Every speck went into cold storage. Just consolidated in the last week or so. Now it’s River held until the amount feels uncomfortably large and then to cold storage.
Very true, I worry though that in the future of blockchain that cost will be very exorbitant, and won't be available to a pleb.
I created this chart, it's on the Unchained blog, not River.
How to prevent small UTXOs from becoming bitcoin dust - Unchained
Friends don't let friends sats turn to operative dust
View quoted note →
“Transaction fees going up forever” is different than “fees will be higher in the future permanently”.
The former is false, the later is likely true.
500k sats is unlikely to be operative dust, but it could cost a very high percentage of itself in fees to be moved.
You can read the article where that chart came from, and the math behind it, here:
How to prevent small UTXOs from becoming bitcoin dust - Unchained
I like a visual element
