Choices out of bothering are made with the head hot. Let it cold a lil, upset dev

the other day i opened coinmarketcap, and i thought one day there will be more Nostr apps than listed tokens, moment lol

I'm old enough to get this reference. 🤣 I managed to outlive the rise and fall of the app dev.

We are all going to have our own suite of custom apps and it's going to be 🔥. The dev talent is going to wander over to app-generators. Don't need to use the same apps, if the data (including user settings!) are standardized and stored in events. Then apps are just more-or-less event viewers. Once paper and pen became cheap enough, the only thing of value was the words being written.

I guess we already have more event kinds than tokens 😜

🤣

I wouldn't run a relay if I had no say in what is going through it. Is that what is being said here, or am I misunderstanding?

Same for the client actually, assuming this means I'm subject to whatever someone else decides without my client having options for me.

In the future, you would either need to: 1) build something so sprawling or complex, that AI would have trouble copying it because of the QA, architecture, and maintenance involved 2) build something that is meant to be used as part of a larger suite, including services and communities 3) build a specialized-app generator 4) take up golfing

I'm saying that the only thing the user owns, is the data and application/relay settings stored in events. If they keep it in events, then they can move from relay to app, and have the same setup, everywhere. So, you would choose your relay based upon service, including whether they honor what is in your events. For instance, @cloud fodder and 121 others allows me to use my npub's lists (mute, follows, favorites, etc.) to determine who is allowed to use my private relay. I edit those lists and click a button in relay.tools and it updates the blocks/allows. That means I could have 15 different relays, from different providers and/or self-hosted, and they'd all have the same settings, if I choose. Or I could have a set of lists by topic and have a book club relay, a Christian chat relays, a dev relay, etc. Filter.wine does something similar with WoT. It is controlled by the changes to your follow list. I house the relay and app settings within my events.

What AI+FOSS does is end the concept of the Killer App, where you just code some blob, sell the rights to Microsoft, and walk away a gazillionaire. You will now actually have to add concrete value and do real labour. There has to be some reason I keep going back to This One Person, and that won't be the app. Make Software Development Work Again.

... while at the other end, howeer, most of the AI stuff still is owned by huge corporations that are able to afford the hardware and operation skills to handle AI. In my environment, this has even more pushed moving to the cloud, most specifically Azure as they also host GPT and similar models in European datacenters which eases pain of those who always wanted to take that step but feld hindered so far by GDPR obligations.🙈

Think about it this way: There used to be one or two ovens per village, either at the bakers or in the town square. It took hours to heat up, by packing it full of precious wood, so everyone would get their bread from there, as building an oven and burning all that wood, just for one loaf of bread, would have been crazy. There were usually only a couple of kinds of bread being baked, as the work around the oven was so laborous. Then people eventually got wood-burning kitchen ovens, that doubled as a heater and a stove. Then they baked their own bread, since the time and cost became negligable. But Most people Just baked the same bread over and over. At the most, they'd break it up into dinner rolls, or something. And then everyone got electrical ovens and it got even easier and cheaper... and they all stopped baking. Now, almost everyone goes to the grocery store or the master bakery, where there is a wide, curated selection of bread, and choose from that selection. In the same way, AI app generation won't lead to everyone creating their own apps. It'll lead to people becoming app-generation specialists and they'll offer an array of apps to choose from and further customize, hosting options, services, etc. Or they will concentrate on the data and storage layer, where the value is. The dev talent will have to go one level deeper, in multliple directions, same way that baking had to become a factory good or an art form. That is the effect of commoditization: go upscale or downscale.

Yes, Nostr is going to trash that model, by making the training data and embeddings public.

Waiting for that, still though unsure to see that coming at some point. Especially in a way so to disrupt business of OpenAI, Microsoft and "friends".

They're already getting crushed by the running costs necessary for AI, especially data storage, analysis, and energy. They're trying to get the processors cheaper, since that's the easiest pressure point, hence the recent NVIDIA crash. Nostr distributes all of those costs. Since your server doesn't have to do all analysis for everyone, but only cater to your own use case and your own data set, and can run asynchronously -- results periodically updating a data file on the server or generating an event for your (private) relay-- it's relatively cheap and you can buy one of the older or less-powerful GPUs for $700-$1500, or just run it on your gaming PC. We literally just listed the embedding spec in the NIP repo this week, and you've already lost patience. 😅 Like, give us at least a year, okay?

GitHub

nips/README.md at master · nostr-protocol/nips

Nostr Implementation Possibilities. Contribute to nostr-protocol/nips development by creating an account on GitHub.

As they say, in this German discussion, you can direct the AI to integrate your own data set into the prompt. You don't necessarily have to train the AI directly. But even training will quickly be possible on smaller machines.

And we don't actually need to always use LLM, anyway. You can do a lot with basic machine learning, if you're a dev.

Yes, I know (this is what I kind of do most of my days - that integration of own data sets into prompts and responses, talking RAG and all). Still, though, I wonder whether / how Nostr will fit in here. So far, we see these two tendencies of companies / customers either opting for Microsoft Azure / OpenAI - to push cloud migration strategies they had in mind for ages but no chance to get done - or waiting for smaller, local models they can run on-prem with an acceptable amount of hardware. Still, though, with the out-of-the-box approach, using this kind of stuff in Azure is extremely attractive with all of the "features" it offers combined so this is hard to address for a lot of people.

Thanks for clarifying

For what I think (though mostly unrelated), we're not even necessarily missing a good AI hosting here. We're missing a good alternative that covers most of the use cases people cover with Azure yet is not provided by Microsoft. An increasing amount of companies and quite some organizations, as I repeatedly have to learn, trust in that stuff. Teams is pretty everywhere. Sharepoint and Onedrive integrates with this. AD and Cloud SSO is used to handle AAA. In some cases, corporations even run virtual desktops on that stuff. Azure computer resources are used to deploy microservices that speak to other "standard" third-party components in Azure (such as Azure-hosted postgresql, elasticsearch, ...). It's a technical sh_t show if you look closer but it still gets you quite far in terms of integration, and their AI stuff tightly integrates with that both on a user level and on an application level. I have no real good idea how to get rid of that, except for really strong regulation (which I don't see happen anytime soon). It's concerning to the max (even though this was a massive deviation from AI on Nostr...).😶

I'm doubtful that we will make much influence on the corporate front, at least for some years. In my experience, it's just too well integrated at this point. So many specialised apps are written for Windows, so it makes sense that they just go all in on Microshit. I begrudgingly use it at work and just accept that it'll probably be that way until I retire. I'm sure we will have another CloudStrike, except far worse, before people even begin to question the stupidity of having most major infrastructure systems in one shitty basket that just keeps growing.

I agree. I wanted to add that, in the future, most people will be willing to pay directly to client entrepreneurs and other service providers because doing so will overall improve their opportunity costs

Yeah, I know. My last job was rolling out Office 365 and co. You forgot to mention Power BI. 🤦‍♂️ Bane of my existence.

German government is trying to go open-source, to save money, but the older public employees keep causing trouble.

Uh. I tried to forget about Power BI. But then again, I try the same for Sharepoint.🙈

Are they the same idiots responsible for selling the Bitcoin and shutting down the nukes?

The last class in my CS degree revolves around PowerBI. Lol It's a bullshit class, but I might replace it with a C++ class or something.

Yeah, same thing.

They want you to learn it, to service the corporate victims and make $$$.

To be fair, that kind of is what colleges are designed around. It would be neglectful for them to not help people get employed. Not why I'm there though so fuck it.

Yeah, maybe some coding class is a better choice at least from a mental health perspective...🙈