pretty crazy phenomenon

I think this is a valid position to take. SOV before MoE is necessary. People are expected to spend their weakest money first and only spend the strong money because there are no other options. Not spending your BTC and acquiring more BTC drives price higher through SOV which brings about incentives for MOe sooner.

*Goes to a restaurant*: Why don’t you accept Bitcoin?! Restaurant owner: actually sir we do. *looks confused* … but do you have a special discount for paying with bitcoin? No, sir, I’m afraid we don’t. Then I’ll pay with fiat because I want arbitrage to use bitcoin as money.

*goes back to restaurant again* Why don’t you take Bitcoin any more? Owner: No one ever paid using it. *looks confused*

Oh man, I don’t know where to even start with that. 😟

Just make a bad first attempt at starting and we’ll go from there.

80 IQ 🫡

Or… same situation, but the dude has watched every podcast of Saylor but have never tried lightning.

Only crazy when you are all in and don’t have any fiat left. I don’t understand hammering on this spending meme

Ok, I’ll just make a list of it: 1) SoV before MoE is a theoretical framework presented as truth. It’s impossible to solve definitively - like the dilemma of what came first: the chicken or the egg. One curious fact: Bitcoin was used as a MoE before it had any value assigned to it (the famous pizza guy). In the early days, it was predominantly used as MoE (Silk Road) before anyone claimed it was anything close to a SoV. 2) You’re making a very ill-informed interpretation of Gresham’s Law. TL;DR—it’s not about Bitcoin at all. 3) Completely wrong and dismisses the history of money and monetary demand. Monetary demand drives NGU more than scarcity. Gold became truly valuable when it was first monetized. Silver collapsed in value compared to gold when it was demonetized. Scarcity without monetary demand makes a good collectible. Monetary demand on top of scarcity makes good money.

You still have fiat left?!

Spend and replace. It’s the same. If merchant sells for multiple currencies, use what you want. If you prefer certain currencies, make sure your balance goes up in them. If a merchant accepts bitcoin, I give them bitcoin and spread this capital around. Then I pull more bitcoin from the market, where some is not being spread. 1% exchange loss max. Infinite gains from spreading the corn. My pro-bitcoin strategy.

If you don’t circulate your bitcoin it will not have the properties that you desire to make it valuable. Also who is living on a fully bitcoin standard? Myself I practice spend & replace.

What’s your method of spend and replace

When I'm feeling particularly devious, I buy bitcoin on cashapp just to pay someone with bitcoin instead of fiat. Just giving adoption a bump everytime someone wants me to pay them some money. Up to them whether they keep it or sell it back to fiat at that point. 🥸

I just find the tax complications a head ache. I can use Shakepay in Canada but it’s all kyc so I just hodl that stack. I’ve used Bitcoin.co to buy gift cards. But it’s a bit of a procedure. And unfortunately I have money in fiat. It is not easy or friendly in the northern Ontario

How will Bitcoin become the world's reserve currency, if no one uses it as currency?

How else do I buy the dips..

Its been bull to lighting and only on nostr. I am kyced heavy with shakepay For my long term. I am temped to start “selling” to avoid long term tax issues. I have played many a tax game in my time, bought my parents house for $1 one time.

I spend way to much fiat

The only way I see myself really spending corn is on travels in Bitcoin friendly places

You need lower time preference. 🫶

🔥🔥

🙄

I understand people have made the “SoV before MoE” argument before and I’m not intending to agree with everything they said. My claims are based on my own research and understanding of monetary history and predictions about how Bitcoin may differ from historical monetizations (because Bitcoin is unique in that there was a time before it existed and it also went through a brief period of hyper(supply)inflation. The chicken and egg analogy works at a high level, but I should add some nuance to my claims. I believe _wide spread_ use as a SoV is a prerequisite to wide spread use as a MoE. But the ability to use something as a MoE is a prerequisite to the usefulness in something as a SoV. You can’t store value in something if it’s impossible to transfer or spend it. So yes transactions must happen as proof that they can happen and this is necessary for anyone to make a decision to store value in it for use in the future. FWIW I’m not intending to invoke Greshams law. When you say monetary demand (and when OP said monetary use), I assume you mean as a MoE. One can demand and use money as a SoV also. Before Laszlo bought pizza with bitcoin, bitcoin’s value rose infinitely from 0 to a fraction of a penny. It stored value better than anything in history despite also undergoing hyperinflation. Bitcoin will be more widely adopted as a SoV before MoE because self interested actors are incentivized to do so. Bitcoin is an amazing SoV because of game theoretic and praxeologic incentives. The incentives for using bitcoin as a MoE today are not nearly as strong. I’d argue that MoE is not even the goal. It’s a side effect of the goal. The aggregate of all things valued by humans is deteriorating overtime because we have broken stores of value. Bitcoin fixes this. Once everyone realizes Bitcoin fixes this, they will not accept anything but bitcoin payment. In the meantime, if 99% of people don’t use bitcoin, it’s perfectly fine to pay them in something else so that you can save more time, energy, and money that can otherwise be used stacking sats and increasing the % of global value stored in bitcoin.

I think for most is the tax headache issue. Someone was talking about creating a wallet that calculates all the tax stuff for you, what do you reckon?

Gresham's Law in economics states that "bad money drives out good." It means when there are two forms of currency in circulation, the one perceived as having lesser value (bad money) will be used for transactions, while the more valued currency (good money) will be hoarded or disappear from circulation. This typically happens when there's a lack of trust in the lesser value currency's stability or value.

Did you prompt ChatGPT all by yourself for that reply? You must be so smart.

I think it’s a copout excuse made up by people who wouldn’t spend bitcoin no matter what jurisdiction or tax situation they lived in. But if it’s really an issue, use something like Strike where you can pay on chain and lightning invoices directly from your cash balance without creating any taxable events.

“Nostr sucks” “Never zap anything” “Why nobody use it”

I’m a Euro fag, here we got one tenth of the btc services you guys have in US 😢

Haha.. I thought we left the rudeness at X! 🥲 I have a bunch of notes about economic laws and stuff. Thought you would like it, it's not like I was trying to correct your meme. Your memes are great. But yeah, reading it again, I might come off like a prick myself. I blame my INTJ personality. ❤️

This doesn't happen if you live on a Bitcoin standard 😏

Chicken and egg. I’d spent bitcoin if shops around me accepted it. Living off gift cards while larping about being on a bitcoin standard is not the same thing. You’re only profiting the gift card companies. Therefore the most important thing, ie next 5 years is to HODL Bitcoin which drives merchant acceptance of this asset with price appreciation. HODL to SPND is my motto.

!!! nevent1qqstyr2tknleust3jqv6zr3ufsepu5mhq66q5xl9yqaqjwzevyyafsqpndmhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0y5erqamnwvaz7tmwdaehgu3wd3skuep0y5erqffjxpshvct5v9ez2v3swaehxw309ahx7um5wgh8w6twv5hj2v3sy5erqctkv96xzu39xgc8wumn8ghj7ur4wfcxcetjv4kxz7fwvdhk6te9xgc8wumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnyv9kh2uewd9hj7ffjxpmhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuumwdae8gtnnda3kjctv9uc9ntsw

I'm a bit like that cyclist. I see Bitcoin as a currency, but for later. For now, I spend in fiat and save in Bitcoin. I finally spent my first Satoshis with Nostr Zaps; it was also my first use of the Lightning Network.

I'm a bit like that cyclist. I see Bitcoin as a currency, but for later. For now, I spend in fiat and save in Bitcoin. I finally spent my first Satoshis with Nostr Zaps; it was also my first use of the Lightning Network. View quoted note →

Hodling makes sense for a cycle or two to deeply learn about Bitcoin and experience the increase in purchasing power, but after at a certain point this meme applies 💯 Once we finally get over our own mental hurdle though, there is no going back ⚡️ View quoted note →

They are using it as money. Gresham's Law states that artificially overvalued money will drive good money into hoarding. That's still a monetary use. Dollars suck and are overvalued by the welfare warfare state, so the law applies sort of indirectly here even though there is a free market exchange rate between dollars and bitcoin. People want to get rid of their shitty fiat by spending it.

Blah blah blah muh GrEsHaM’s LaW 😂 It’s a hypothesis at best.

It's one example of price controls in supply and demand dynamics, which are very much real. What I gave was merely a hypothesis because it's not really an example of Gresham's Law except that dollars are overvalued compared to basically all other goods, so all other goods are gonna be hoarded in as much as the people who understand money will use them as money. But Gresham's Law is certainly true.

I will see your Gresham’s Law and raise you a Thiers’ Law. 😂 My point is, these are just made up “laws” that don’t actually control anything. At best they try to describe behavior, but they aren’t actually laws at all. Do what you want with your money. You can just ignore Gresham and Thier.

They are true descriptions. But human action changes the game. That's how economics always works. You don't have to talk to me like I'm an unthinking redditor. Economic laws govern everything, and yet individuals govern what economic laws will apply to them at any moment. Notice that I didn't say EVERYONE will or should hoard ALL their bitcoin. I merely implied it's a natural tendency, it tends to often be the rational thing to do in current conditions for a lot of people.

Gresham's Law doesn't even fully apply to bitcoin, as I said

Plus once you run out of dollars completely, what are you gonna use as money?? That's the real problem. People need to go 110% in so that it's hard for them not to spend bitcoin. Hoarding leads to spending, sooner or later.

I will talk to you how I want, just as you will do the same toward me. If you feel insulted by me being direct with you, that’s a you problem. Get used to it or get lost. 🤷‍♂️ Neither of these (Gresham or Theirs) are laws, as a law is universally applicable. It is stupid to refer to them as such, especially since they contradict each other and yet are both referred to as “laws.” Do they describe human behavior in some circumstances? Sure. Are they universal laws? No. At best they are perhaps hypotheses

The Aco Hypothesis states that a coin in motion will remain in motion.

I didn't feel insulted or bothered. You're reading too much into what I'm saying. I'm afraid you don't understand the economic theory, nor the point I am making. I'm basically saying you're right, but I am clarifying the points for precision. I even said they are NOT universally applicable. If you can't understand that, THAT'S a you problem. I'm only an amateur economist, what do I know about economic laws?

Lol wtf does that even mean, “amateur economist”? 😂

It means I'm an economist but I'm poor lol

😂🫡