Ok, what would you like to debate?

Some people don’t want to have kids and that’s completely fine. It has nothing to do with being brainwashed.

Granted people make choices for all sorts of personal reasons. I’m not denying that. But if we step back and look at the broader picture, something bigger is going on. Birth rates are falling in almost every modern country that has widespread internet, media, and constant exposure to cultural messaging. When most of the developed world is below replacement at the same time, it’s hard to ignore the possibility that society is shaping attitudes on a large scale. So if it isn’t some form of collective influence or cultural conditioning (brainwashing) what else explains the global decline in your opinion?

I’ll follow this thread, very interested to hear what people say.

Some people just cant and they are fine too...

We can say the same thing about certain cults as well. Some cults actively encourage having children, because the more children are born, the more members the cult gains. So sometimes having children is actually a brainwashed activity. Your hypothesis could certainly apply on a broader societal scale as well. There could also be a constant underlying propaganda coming from the internet, media, and modern countries contributing to declining birth rates. Or we might need to actually research why people make these choices. It could be a form of universal propaganda, or it could be driven by the high cost of living, or inflation caused by the fiat system. If you present such an argument, I would expect you to investigate the underlying reasons and share them with me. Then, I would truly enjoy reading and exploring that.

In one word: Incentives. There are many reasons historically, people used to have children and often, many children. 1. Labour - many hands make light work 2. Legacy 3. Old age care plan 4. High testosterone levels 5. Absence of other entertainment/distraction 6. Low infant mortality 1. no longer needed (AI, robots, other basic tech like dishwashers and washing machines) 2. Wonderfully and Sadly with the internet people can leave a permanent mark or stain of themselves on this planet into eternity without having children. 3. The breakdown of the family plus care facilities make this redundant. 4. Need I say more. Easy times + toxic food + sedentary lifestyles drop testosterone levels to a fraction of historical norms. 5. Convenient distractions combined with low testosterone, need I say more. 6. Spares are no longer needed. I’m sure many other points could be added here but I’m out of time. Final thoughts, don’t try to convince others to have children. There is a process of natural selection at play here. There is 1 thing every human on this planet has in common, our ancestors were survivors. This same comment will hold true, thousands of generations from now.

A lot of modern content focuses on the downsides of kids: they’re expensive, they trap you, they destroy your freedom etc… You see this constantly in memes, shows, TikToks, and online spaces. When one narrative gets repeated nonstop, it changes how people feel even if they never had that view originally. Furthermore people are told that having children is irresponsible because of climate change, overpopulation (which isn’t actually aligned with current demographic trends), or resource scarcity. That creates guilt around the idea of having a family at all. Lastly Instead of discussing solutions to cost-of-living problems, many narratives push the idea that the future will be uniformly bleak. When the future is painted as hopeless, fewer people imagine themselves raising kids. None of these forces act alone, but together they create an atmosphere where not having children feels like the default, even for people who might have wanted them under different conditions.

This was a top down push HODL.

I think so as well

And specifically against one group of people, spearheaded by another.

I don’t think all of this is the result of some massive propaganda machine. It’s more like a combination of many factors that come together and shape the realities of modern life. In the mid 1900s, a single income could support an entire family; now even households with two working parents struggle to get by. To advance in their careers and earn better salaries, people invest more time in education and work. This naturally pushes the “ideal age” for starting a family further and further. Climate anxiety is also a real fear. When people in places like Tuvalu are watching their countries literally disappear from the map, I don’t think having children feels like an exciting prospect to them. And the individualism that came with the 21st century is not necessarily a bad thing, it simply changed how we live. People socialize online, travel the world and fill their time with hobbies. In the last 30 years, individualism has opened up so many new life paths and that’s one of the reasons many people move away from the traditional nuclear family model. Yes, these are real issues, but calling people “brainwashed” for not wanting kids (or wanting them) is condescending and not a solution. If you’re an employer, for example, you can support your workers by offering parental leave and benefits. In your own community, you can contribute to creating safe environments where children can grow up well. And most importantly, instead of assuming that people’s choices are the result of a massive manipulation, you can actually listen and understand their real concerns about having children. And that way, you actually learn what the real issue is, which is essential if you want to find meaningful solutions.

Climate anxiety is not a real fear

Holy essay lol

You personally might not fear it, but the 10,000 people of Tuvalu would probably have a different opinion.

Is this an a.i. induced conversation on your end? Because I’m gonna be honest with you I have no fucking clue what Tuvalu has to do with westerners not having kids.

Ok, let me guide you; You first said "people are told that having children is irresponsible because of climate change," and I replied that for some people that fear is actually real. (For example, Tuvaluans genuinely worry about having children because in the future their country may not exist due to climate crisis.) Then you said climate fears aren’t real, so I pointed out *again* that Tuvaluans themselves experience this. After that, you accused me of being AI and claimed Tuvalu has nothing to do with "Westerners not having kids," even though from the beginning I was talking about people everywhere, not just the West.

Omg where the hell did you drag that small island out. Lol... Tuvalu... 😄

I think about Tuvalu a lot... I can’t imagine what it must feel like to watch your homeland slowly disappear from the map, knowing you might outlive your own country.

Your reading comprehension is very poor if you think I called you A.I.

I'm sorry, you are right. You said "a.i. induced." No, it’s not induced by AI. I hope I helped you comprehend what Tuvalu’s situation has to do with Westerners (and all other people) who don’t having kids.

You did not. I don’t think Tuvalu’s plight is related to man made climate change nor do I think it is applicable to birth rates in the developed world

The scientific consensus is that Tuvalu’s situation is driven by climate change. People who actually see these effects naturally fear for the future and for some, that fear influences their decisions about having children. It’s one factor among many, not the only one. You said climate fear isn’t real, so I pointed to an example where it clearly is. My argument remains the same: not everything is part of some big propaganda machine. Many of these decisions come from natural human emotions shaped by what people are witnessing around the world.

What to say nature. Earth passes through stages of cooling and heating. Some stuff die off some new get born. I just see it as life. 🤷‍♀️ A times nature does what nature does.

That’s window dressing for an ideology that prizes hedonism and consumerism over family in my view. I don’t think anyone in the western world is actually delaying or forgoing children because of climate hysteria. They do it because they’re self absorbed mainly and yes brainwashed by culture.

You’re reducing a wide range of economic, social and personal reasons to a “brainwashed culture.” That’s an extremely narrow way of looking at the world. Even if culture plays a role, the real discussion would be who shapes that culture and why. Your approach is so one dimensional that misses all the depth and complexity behind people’s choices.

And you seem to believe tens of millions of people all come to a decision that undercuts their own biological imperative on their own with no outside influence. Not buying it.

Look at developed nations with mass control structures verse non developed ones without them, and who has the birth replacement problems

No, I didn’t say people make decisions with zero outside influence. My point is that their reasons are diverse and reducing all of them to a single explanation like “propaganda” is one dimensional.

jumping to the conclusion that the cause is humans is so utterly callous and unjust that i just can't even. islands are always under threat from the ocean. island people with any intellect will tell you this, because they have lived through all kinds of things. i have only been on an island for 2 years and i've already seen numerous minor incidents that could have been way worse with bad luck contriving a worst case scenario. i was curious about this and read of an incident in the 30s on this island where a really big amount of rock fell off a cliff in the region of Cabo Girao (cape of turning) that killed 19 people, because of a small, localised tsunami. some islands are still growing. hawaii. some are stable, like madeira, cape verde, the canaries. the stable ones aren't sinking, because they are sitting on top of massive volcanic rock that pushed the island up in teh first place. just as it might be bad luck to be in a boat fishing when a volcano pushes land above the water, it can happen that land that was above water, has its foundations collapse. it can be due to tectonic movement affecting a wide area of the seabed, of which the tips above the water are just a fraction of what is sinking below the surface. it's got nothing to do with climate change, because last i checked, venice beach is still there. california is still there. brighton beach is still there, several hundred years since they covered it in amusement parks and tourist amusements. the gold coast, in australia, is still bristling with sky scrapers right at the edge of the sea. where's the sea level rise? complete. fucking. bullshit. absolute lunatic cult brainwashed insanity. the worst part of this fraud being prosecuted by the lying ass bitch psycho elites who are bankrolling this propaganda campaign against humanity itself, is that a very real, and very serious and very global natural disaster is looming in the future, the signs that our planet's shield is weakening are obvious to anyone who is watching the ratio between solar flare intensity and geomagnetic storm intensity is noticing. the utter lack of preparation for this planet to have the crust slip due to excessive voltage penetrating the ground is extremely disturbing. the evidence, in rocks, in historical records, and the clear cyclic rhythm, tied to the rotation period of the galaxy are being ignored, and we are supposed to believe that by obeying their instructions, we will prevent disaster. this is a blatant fallacy, and deception, because you can't falsify their claims. their claims started with their conclusion to build to the claims, instead of building from evidence to a conclusion. it's really sad that people are still falling for this, but the misanthropic propaganda machine run by the people who most vociferously complain about the "useless eaters" who make their domination of humanity difficult... is running out of runway. before 20 years time, the sun is going to put an end to their plans to enslave humanity with computers and genetic engineering. and for what it's worth, while tuvalu's plate may be going down right now, that fact alone implies that the crust is weak there and the opposite, in fact, could occur. in fact, like the draw back of water before the waves crash, after the previous wave crashed, the current sinking could actually be a warning that there is a fracture in the crust there that might allow magma to rise up out of it, and then what's the complaint going to be? oh yeah, the new volcano, that i didn't move away from, covered my house in rock. aww. poor diddums. letting people with no incentive to be honest with you, fool you into any kind of state of false alarm, or false comfort, is ultimately going to be on your back, when your lack of curiosity and self-initiative results in your house sinking under the waves, idk how to have any sympathy for someone who refuses to listen to the VOICE OF GOD which manifests most clearly for the majority of people, as a question that you couldn't live without being answered. you have nobody to blame but yourself if you didn't do your homework. this isn't babysitting. you are supposed to be an adult.

I’m sorry, but it doesn’t make sense or feel rational to me to believe that the work of countless independent scientists, people who publish peer-reviewed papers, work at universities and research institutes, and dedicate their entire lives to this field, is "propaganda," while personal anecdotes, apocalyptic speculation, and conspiracy driven assumptions are supposed to be the "truth.”

The reasons are not that diverse in my opinion

Fair enough. Thanks for sharing your view.