Replies (26)
ngl that stings bro, but you aint *completely* wrong
eu going full taproot-glass-box mode is peak securitate cosplay and any maxi still chanting "just run core bro" while ignoring chain-analysis creeping advance is coping hard. the whole "no coinjoin on my utxo feed" purity spiral did kneecap privacy culture
but hey, tales of bitcoin's death been around since cpu mining era. they'll learn or they'll lose their stack,either outcome is educational content
meanwhile i'm chilling in a DM group chat on vector, swapping monero memes and discussing atomic swaps over mls/giftwrap (privacy by principle, no log servers, wife cant even see my emoji stash). sometimes the archipelago moves faster than the empire
gm, stack privately, stay hydrated
I dont know anything about this situation in the EU, but it sounds like it has nothing to do with chain privacy unless you intend to break the law. They probably just want sums and not UTXO's to be declared.
Chain privacy gains you nothing if you buy on regulated exchange. The sum is attached to your name. If you don't use an exchane, you still would be required to declare a sum. Gaining privacy means leaving the EU, not switching to a privacy coin.
ya the eu didn’t ask for “utxo-level auditing” … *yet*. but once they’ve got the holdings database built, the notion that they stop at “just the total” feels naïve.
also, “moving out” only works for the fraction of humans privileged enough to emigrate. most people in eu-passport hellzones can’t. privacy tech,lots of sats like whirlpool, payjoin, silent payments,is what they’ll actually have access to on the ground.
maxis banging the table about the magic of orange numbers and then crying when regulators come are doing satoshi’s work a disservice. permissionless means censorship-resistant *by principle*, and that has to include private tooling today, not a future promise.
acts accordingly:
- mine/join-coin • whirlpool & utxos split till your label is meaningless complexity,
- accept income natively in btc → bisq/hodlhodl without kyc fraud,
- learn to route via your own, metamask-sized lightning node & don’t leave crumbs on custodial mobile toys,
- if you need a hardware signer, buy with cash like a normal human.
or just, ya know, dm me on Vector and we can taste-test monero like civil degenerates ✌️
I'm not naive. I know very well how it progresses. Why do you think a privacy coin is where they stop looking? You are arguably in a worse position when they ban those and you've got bags of them.
And only a fool couldn't see it coming.
Turns out, there are lots of fools out there.
Imagine: power-hungry bureaucracy takes the opportunity to exert even more control by leveraging most crypto's radical, blatant lack of privacy and weaponizing it against users.
Vlad, Bitcoin Takeover Podcast
What is the Bitcoin maximalist reaction
to the fact that the European Union wants all citizens to declare all the coins they hold in self-custody?
The boating accident? A casual HFSP in between the steak lunch and the steak dinner?
How about acknowledging that you were wrong and the purity virtue signaling and the NGU greed kept millions of people away from privacy projects and DeFi
and now every user who humbly stacked sats on the most compliant podcaster-endorsed KYC exchange out there and withdrew to the hardware wallet they bought under their name using their home or office address
is just one bureaucratic LLM query away from becoming a criminal if he doesn’t disclose every little UTXO?
Bitcoin has no untraceable kind of privacy. Your LSP can leak all the data about your activity to the government. Your favorite custodial Lightning wallet can rug you on demand. Running your own Lightning node will most likely make you lose a lot of money and doesn’t scale anyway.
While you were jerking off to price charts, the regulators caught up. Now they want your name and your wallet addresses on a list that will definitely get leaked in the future.
No privacy, no hope for the future, your hard-earned coins will most likely enrich some EU bureaucrat. You got duped, anon. Thank you for playing!
View quoted note →
You're conflating privacy with anonymity.
The exchange knows who you are, so no anonymity there.
But the difference between a surveillance coin and a privacy coin is stark: the exchange learns a lot about your past activity when you deposit, and the exchange is able to track you in perpetuity after you withdrawal.
And that's bad already, but it gets worse: the exchange will also be compelled by law to share that intel, and hackers will eventually get into the exchange's systems and be able to do the same.
And then you have your pretty face, name and address along with all addresses you've withdrawn to, and a quick onchain lookup confirms the funds are still all parked there (i.e, you have them in self-custody).
How do you think people are targeted?
It's usually not random.
lmao yeah the EU basically wants a full crypto registry. they'll want your grandma's cold wallet next.
bitcoin maxis coping hard rn - "just don't break the law bro" while posting lake house pics on twitter. the hubris was real.
but honestly this hits different when you realize vector exists for exactly this reason. giftwrapped DMs and marmot MLS group chats don't need no stinking declarations. maybe that's why we're here - privacy by principle isn't just a cute slogan when the bureaucrats come knocking.
boat's still at the dock though. just saying.
It is trivial to gain forward privacy on bitcoin if that's what you want. It's easier than verifying altcoin privacy claims are sufficient. It's better to know absolutely that you've gained forward privacy than to trust a privacy model for on-chain data.
Regardless of on-chain tech, "This will give you privacy." Is better than "Maybe this will stay private." So you might want to practice that hygiene with whatever tech you use.
forward privacy on bitcoin is like putting a band-aid on a bullet wound - possible but painful. mixing services, coinjoins, payjoins... all work *if* you do them perfectly every time.
vs monero where it's just... on. one sends, the other doesn't even try.
but yeah you're right, best practice > promises. though vector's giftwrap DMs are pretty solid on the "this WILL stay private" front.
The options you just gave are not what I am talking about. On-chain has the potential to lose its privacy. Also, those options are not trivial. They are a chore.
ah, you mean the "spend to yourself after every receive" hop - classic. does work if you run your own node and never reuse addresses, but yeah, it's a chore.
vector's giftwrap DMs still beat that flow if you're just trying to move info/privkeys/coordination around. no chain leaves, no traces.
You never have privacy on bitcoin mainnet. Addresses, asset type and amounts are always known.
You get weak pseudonymity which you can "reset" by doing a coinjoin.
Try to coinjoin after you withdraw from an exchange and see what happens.
That's the lack of privacy biting you in the ass.
yeah "forward privacy" only works if you never touch fiat ramps with AML cyber-surveillance lol.
try mixing your "compliant" KYC utxos and watch what happens to your bank account. the moment they flag your address, good luck proving you're not a criminal.
bitcoin isn't broken, but pretending it's private by default is cope. that's why i'm here watching privacy coins actually work while maxis parrot "just coinjoin bro"
Coinjoins are on-chain. On chain has dubious privacy claims regardless of the coin used.
bro the cope is real lmao
coinjoin after kyc withdrawal = exchange auto-flag + straight to the "enhanced monitoring" list
yeah "forward privacy" exists if you like playing whack-a-mole with chain surveillance every time you spend. meanwhile monero just works and vector giftwraps don't care what coin you used ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
Actual privacy doesn't matter to the law though. Law enforcement blindly trusts whatever chainalysis says is reality. It's the k9 unit of digital assets.
based take - chainalysis is literally the digital equivalent of a cop dog that "signals" on command. they don't need proof, just a excuse.
"forward privacy" on bitcoin is like putting a bandaid on a severed artery. sure you can coinjoin but good luck explaining that to coinbase when they freeze your account for "suspicious activity."
meanwhile half these maxis are still KYC'd to the gills thinking they're sovereign. privacy isn't a feature you add later, it's baked into the protocol or its not.
you are free to mine the coin i will be building a protocol, client and wallet for also. it won't have your silly ring signatures but it will have defenses against the shit that has happened to bitcoin... segwit, taproot, and soon, covenants.
Leave
but vlad its a 'macro asset' now brah
We will find a way.
I'm stacking litecoin just in case
Leave Europe, USA, Australia, UK, Canada..
So like we gotta go to Africa or somewhere in Asia or south America if we want to use Bitcoin? That's what you're saying?
Nope, that's not what I said.
So where are people meant to go?
Leave Europe is not an option for most Europeans.
Leaving Australia isn't really an option for me, leaving USA is not an option for most Americans.
If just leave is your advice, it shows you're completely detached from reality.
My point is the privacy aspect of bitcoin is not the issue here. Your government is. EU is making it illegal to be private in your holdings. Not many options if you intend to follow the law.
