Red Flag: "The reality is", "Well Documented", "Vegan athletes" Are you trying to make a moral case or logical case against carnivores? When it comes to diet what is the desired result? Muscle, life longevity, reducing one's footprint? Quality of food is importantly for any diet and I think they all have their function and results.

Make their lives good the rest of the time, so the momentary kill shot will be the only bad moment in their lives. We can snap our focus away from the plants vs animals dilemma, and get back to thinking on life consuming life in a circle of life forever. But no matter what, the first part is the most important.

That is a very good idea. Cutting out fatty, processed foods and sugar is a huge step. Then, reducing dairy, and increasing the quality of the foods you eat with an emphasis on vegetables, whole grains, nuts, seeds, and healthy fats—even if you're not yet ready to go fully plant-based—will make a massive difference in your health and energy levels. Check this out (there's a high quality .avi version in the archive link that can easily be converted losslessly to .mp4 with FFMpeg). It's a plant-based documentary, but it's not preachy. It's also on Netflix. Then, I highly recommend watching this: View quoted note → Congratulations on the wise decision. Best wishes to you on your health journey. 🙏🏻

Those dangers you listed are from oxidation and oxidation primary cause is high omega 6 and linoleic acid from highly processed foods primarily containing vegetable oils.

There certainly is. The scientific evidence demonstrates a clear causal relationship between red meat consumption,cardiovascular disease, and arterial function—not just a complex association. While I've provided comprehensive sources below, I encourage you to explore the research yourself beyond AI assistants, which often oversimplify these relationships (they still can't do research very well). You'll find abundant authoritative sources and scientific consensus—just make sure to research their funding sources as well. Here are a few very important sources that are not funded by the meat and dairy industries, which often influence research outcomes through selective publishing practices. When industry-funded studies reveal harmful effects, they frequently remain unpublished (they don't have to publish their findings). Conversely, these industries have a long history of publishing studies that show favorable results, even when the research methodology is flawed or biased. "A 2016 cohort study led by Harvard involving 131,342 participants found that every 10% increase in calories from animal protein led to a corresponding 8% increased risk of dying from cardiovascular disease, and concluded that “high animal protein intake was positively associated with cardiovascular mortality and high plant protein intake was inversely associated with all-cause and cardiovascular mortality” (31). Another major cohort study involving more than 81,000 participants, published in the International Journal of Epidemiology, found that those eating the most protein from meat versus those eating the least had a 61% increased risk of cardiovascular death, while those eating the most protein from nuts and seeds experienced a 40% reduction in risk (32). All told, simply avoiding animal products can reduce a man's risk of dying from heart disease by 55% (25)." "As referenced in The Plant-Based Advantage, a single animal-based meal can constrict our arteries by 40% just two hours after consuming it. Cardiovascular disease takes hold when this assault on our arteries continues day after day, year after year, until they become so stiff and narrow that blood flow to our hearts and brains becomes restricted. This process sets the stage for pieces of unstable plaque to break off and block blood flow to one of our arteries, at which point we may suffer a heart attack or stroke. Many factors play a role in why animal foods aren’t good for your cardiovascular system. These include the numerous compounds and molecules that come from foods like meat — including endotoxins, trimethylamine N-oxide (TMAO), heterocyclic amines (HCAs), and heme iron — which can inflame our arteries and lead to the formation of plaques (28,33). Heme iron is so potentially damaging that just eating one more milligram per day is associated with a 27% increase in risk of coronary heart disease (34). To put that in perspective, a single hamburger patty can contain two milligrams of heme iron or more (35-37). Meanwhile, a large body of evidence shows that plants have the opposite effect, improving arterial function via a completely different set of constituents, including antioxidants and plant-sourced nitrates, which soothe the inflammation that can lead to cardiovascular disease while improving blood flow to our heart, brain and other organs (38,39). Taking all of this into account, it may come as no surprise that a healthy plant-based diet is not only effective at preventing cardiovascular disease, but is the only diet that has ever been clinically proven to actually reverse it (40,41)." Sources: (25) Le LT, Sabaté J. Beyond Meatless, the Health Effects of Vegan Diets: Findings from the Adventist Cohorts. Nutrients. 2014 Jun;6(6):2131-47. (28) Hever J, Cronise RJ. Plant-based nutrition for healthcare professionals: implementing diet as a primary modality in the prevention and treatment of chronic disease. J Geriatr Cardiol. 2017 May;14(5):355-68. (31) Song M, Fung TT, Hu FB, Willett WC, Longo VD, Chan AT, Giovannucci EL. Association of Animal and Plant Protein Intake With All-Cause and Cause-Specific Mortality. JAMA Intern Med. 2016 Oct;176(10):1453-63. (32) Tharrey M, Mariotti F, Mashchak A, Barbillion P, Delattre M, Fraser GE. Patterns of plant and animal protein intake are strongly associated with cardiovascular mortality: the Adventist Health Study-2 cohort. Int J Epid. 2018 Oct;47(5):1603-12. (33) Erridge C, Attina T, Spickett CM, Webb DJ. A high-fat meal induces low-grade endotoxemia: evidence of a novel mechanism of postprandial inflammation. Am J Clin Nutr. 2007 Nov;86(5):1286-92. (34) Yang W, Li B, Dong X, Zhang XQ, Zeng Y, Zhou JL, Tang YH, Xu JJ. Is heme iron intake associated with risk of coronary heart disease? A meta-analysis of prospective studies. Eur J Nutr. 2014 Mar;53(2):395-400. (35) Young LR, Nestle M. Portion sizes and obesity: responses of fast-food companies. J Public Health Policy. 2007 Jul;28(2):238-48. (36) Cross AJ, Harnly JM, Ferrucci LM, Risch A, Mayne ST, Sinha R. Developing a heme iron database for meats according to meat type, cooking method and doneness level. Food Nutr Sci. 2012 Jul;3(7):905-13. (37) HealthLinkBC. Iron in Foods. Nutrition Series - Number 68d. Feb 2017. (38) Leopold JA. Antioxidants and Coronary Artery Disease: From Pathophysiology to Preventive Therapy. Coron Artery Dis. 2015 Mar;26(2):176-83. (39) Raubenheimer K, Bondonno C, Blekkenhorst L, Wagner KH, Peake JM, Neubauer O. Effects of dietary nitrate on inflammation and immune function, and implications for cardiovascular health. Nutr Rev. 2019 Aug;77(8):584-99. (40) Satija A, Hu FB. Plant-based diets and cardiovascular health. Trends Cardiovasc Med. 2018 Oct;28(7):437-41. (41) Kahleova H, Levin S, Barnard N. Cardio-Metabolic Benefits of Plant-Based Diets. Nutrients. 2017 Aug;9(8):848. ---- I highly recommend this documentary: Then, if you're still skeptical (and even if you're not), this podcast: View quoted note →

Whenever you talk about red meats causing the conditions you mentioned, I think it's important to note that processed and unprocessed red meats carry different levels of risk to health. I am saying there are more factors that go into red meat besides the meat itself, such as the methods they are preserved and cooked. The problems you are talking about apply mostly to processed red meats specifically. For instance, processed meats have greater risks for cancers and CHD. Sources:

PubMed

Consumption of red meat and processed meat and cancer incidence: a systematic review and meta-analysis of prospective studies - PubMed

Red meat and processed meat consumption has been hypothesized to increase risk of cancer, but the evidence is inconsistent. We performed a systemat...

Unprocessed Red and Processed Meats and Risk of Coronary Artery Disease and Type 2 Diabetes – An Updated Review of the Evidence - PMC

Growing evidence suggests that effects of red meat consumption on coronary heart disease (CHD) and type 2 diabetes could vary depending on processi...

On the other hand, unprocessed red meats do not have the same risk. "There was no association with Ischemic stroke incidence, nor CHD Mortality with consumption of unprocessed red meat...As for the results of the meta-analysis of the association between consumption of processed meat and CVD, they indicated that there was a significant association with total stroke incidence." Source:

PubMed

Associations of the consumption of unprocessed red meat and processed meat with the incidence of cardiovascular disease and mortality, and the dose-response relationship: A systematic review and meta-analysis of cohort studies - PubMed

According to the results found in the meta-analysis, the consumption of unprocessed red meat and processed meat are associated with the incidence o...

"We found weak evidence of association between unprocessed red meat consumption and colorectal cancer, breast cancer, type 2 diabetes and ischemic heart disease. Moreover, we found no evidence of an association between unprocessed red meat and ischemic stroke or hemorrhagic stroke." Source: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-01968-z "In meta-analyses of prospective cohorts, higher risk of CHD is seen with processed meat consumption (RR per 50 g: 1.42, 95 %CI = 1.07–1.89), but a smaller increase or no risk is seen with unprocessed meat consumption. Differences in sodium content (~400 % higher in processed meat) appear to account for about two-thirds of this risk difference." Source:

Unprocessed Red and Processed Meats and Risk of Coronary Artery Disease and Type 2 Diabetes – An Updated Review of the Evidence - PMC

Growing evidence suggests that effects of red meat consumption on coronary heart disease (CHD) and type 2 diabetes could vary depending on processi...

I am also wondering about the vitamin K2 that is in fatty meats, as it important for heart health. There has to be more factors that are going into health problems like clogged arteries or erectile dysfunction besides the simple fact men consumed red meat, processed or unprocessed. Source:

PubMed

Vitamin K2-a neglected player in cardiovascular health: a narrative review - PubMed

Vitamin K₂ serves an important role in cardiovascular health through regulation of calcium homeostasis. Its effects on the cardiovascula...

I agree with you. If you are going to eat red meat, then high-quality meat is much better for you than processed. The reality is the vast majority of people eat the processed stuff. However, that does not change the fact that the scientific evidence demonstrates a clear causal relationship between red meat consumption, cardiovascular disease, and arterial function. If you're interested in exploring this topic further, I highly recommend you dig into this research and check out the documentary in the subsequent podcast with Joe Rogan linked in the post below. What makes this particular podcast significant is that when presented with the scientific evidence about meat consumption and health, even Rogan, who advocates for meat-eating, acknowledged the strength of the data. I think you may find the podcast quite informative. I've included all the relevant links in the post below for reference.