Everybody should know and understand this! 🫡

Hardware wallets protect secrets. If the secret is easy to guess then sure the hardware is not very useful It’s not complex

What you're saying is just wrong. Hardware wallets protect you from malware in your computer. The software on the hardware wallet is a lot less complex than all the things that run on your computer, so the chance that there are bugs that can be exploited is several magnitudes less for the hardware wallet than for your computer.

The benefit you’re describing here is essentially the smaller attack vector in a hardware wallet’s code, as opposed to a much larger computer operating system. Do I have that right?

Exactly.

Hardware Wallets protect you from malware on any Internet connected device you might use - so yes we're in agreement here. I also understand the less complexity = good concept but that is still secondary to the airgap. If you have a true airgap on a clean machine - Bitcoin keys are safe. I'm also advocating here to build a SeedSigner so I have no idea where we disagree my guy!

I never said the hardware wasn't useful, I'm explicitly advocating building a @SeedSigner My point is that HWWs aren't some insane piece of tech that is overly complex & it shouldn't be.

We disagree in the first two sentences you wrote: "Hardware Wallets do not protect your Bitcoins. The hardware doesn't make your Bitcoins safer." Actually, a hardware wallet DOES make your Bitcoins safer than holding them on your everyday computer. Also, setting up and keeping your coins air gapped on a separate computer is a lot harder, more prone to errors and also more expensive than a hardware wallet. A Trezor goes by 70$. A separate laptop usually not under 200$. And how do you even keep the airgap if you want to send your coins somewhere? As soon as you try to transfer data between your bitcoin computer and your everyday computer (probably with a thumb drive), the airgap is broken. Dedicated malware can also be transferred via thumb drive.

You can definitely pass a PSBT file from any airgapped device but remember some of these devices aren't a panacea. Some people have had trouble sending large amount of inputs in one TX (140+) with some devices. The HWW couldn't absorb the PSBT generated to sign - legit failure. HWWs can also make your Bitcoins less safe by using their Random Number Generators & trusting that your device is legit & not tampered with. I do understand the use of HWWs for signing, but people store their seeds on these HWWs which are only protected with a pin code!! This is the point you've missed^

Further, If you read my OP carefully I don't say the software you're running isn't keeping your Bitcoins safe, I was referencing the hardware as being sort of generic & nothing special needed & the code youre using to keep those Bitcoins safe isn't something that is ultra complex like some HWW providers try to market. Like when they shove secure elements into our faces which are shrouded in NDAs and secrecy around vulnerability disclosure.

Back to my OP, I phrased it in a way to catch your attention, but I was hoping my last sentence about airgap would drive the point home of convenience & that's why we use HWWs - but if all the providers go away tomorrow Bitcoin will be custodied safely due to BIP39 standards.

The "only protected by a Pin" part only plays out if the attacker has physical access to your device. Assuming most people would also keep a copy of their seed on paper or metal washers in the same residence as their air gapped device, this just comes down to: If someone breaks into your home, you're fucked. So there's no advantage to your solution.

Hope I didn't confuse anyone, and I hope you click my Bitcoin self custody 101 bullet point list - as I clearly state to use not only a HWW but a SeedSigner. If you have a problem with my choice of HWW then that's okay :)

You don't realize how people are actually storing these things. The pin can be a big vulnerability. Stateheld devices are just a dumb idea for cold storage.

Raspberry pi?

16$ with pins already soldered.

Raspberry Pi Zero WH (Zero W with Headers)

If you didn't think that the Raspberry Pi Zero W could possibly get any better, then boy do we have a pleasant surprise for you! The new R...

And your argument is that air gapped PCs cannot be used wrong? That passwords cannot be guessed there? My argument is that the things that can possibly go wrong with a custom setup on a PC are some magnitudes more and worse than with a dedicated hardware wallet. It's easy enough for experts to make words in such an environment. Not even talking about the casual user.