Fully agree. The more these coretards double down the more I respect monero. They are built to think from an adversarial approach. Unlike many bitcoiners who bend over and spread their cheeks for governments, banks, and even shitcoiners to get in so number go up in the short term. It's so vapid and pathetic.

Exactly what I meant

You know how hard it is to watch it all go down the drain?

Some of us own Monero for that precise reason. Conflicts of interest among Bitcoin's core contributors.

There's no shitcoiners but rather Fiat Maxis. Bitcoin has failed to be toxic enough for the statists.

Go on Dread and tell the darknet vendors that Monero is the wrong tool for the job. I'm curious if you'll convince them.

yes

No problem, I'll take your bitcoin off your hands at a rate of 1:1 per Monero.

The wrong tool?

Monero has the advantage of being still a small community. Bitcoin had the same feels from 2010-2013. Can not talk about 2009 from my own experience. But then Monero might have the oportunity to stay under the radar for a little while longer as all CEX get demands to delist it, which will mostly attract the right people.

Agreed

Bitcoin got shot in the knee before completing its evolution. In a manner, technical aspects of it shapes the culture and what kind of people it attracts. Fundamentally, you can't attract the cypherpunk, anti system crowd w/ a transparent ledger. Had Satoshi implemented what he was talking about, we would've had an entirely different Bitcoin and Bitcoin crowd today.

Obviously it’s the right tool for darknet vendors and privacy maximalists. It’s the wrong tool for liberating the world, what I meant.

Good Morning , ☀️

Most mining companies and pools are outright shitcoiners. People that want extra usecases on top of the monetary one are shitcoiners (and idiots). People that sell spot bitcoin for etf shares and treasury stoncks are shitcoiners (and idiots). People that find excuses for spam (censorship, nonsense threat scenarios etc) are shitcoiners.

I still have some hope left

Who transacts more freely than darknet vendors? Who is in more defiance of state control? If it keeps criminals free from life in prison, it certainly keeps average citizens free.

Did you read what I wrote or just the part of giving credit to Monero

Hopefully we can kick them out one at a time in the next year or two.

Yeah, fair enough, and I’m not against everyone minding their own business, but that’s not how the real world works unfortunately.

We make the real world with our choices. The real world operated on untraceable cash, signatures and handshakes just 100 years ago and all time before. This "real" world we live in now is not normal.

It’s not normal indeed, but it’s convenient and “stable”. Stability seems to win against sovereignty every time unfortunately. Permissionless tech =\= permissionless adoption.

I apologize. I read it and preempted all the Monero people coming in.

Does it take away from the monetary usecase of the protocol though? It will just happen in other layers, and in all likelihood (remains to be seen) will attract an immense amount of capital, which will pump hodler bags like nothing else so far. Monero is great but it's also a small fraction of Bitcoin, in terms of network effect, network security, etc. It makes all the sense in the world to put that infrastructure on Bitcoin, as it's by very far the most secure and decentralized L1. Which, you know, is why so many smart developers are working on those "defi on bitcoin" type of projects. I, for one, welcome our new defi overlords.

> Does it take away from the monetary usecase of the protocol though? Yes. Allowing data of 100KB in OP_RETURN is a new _officially sanctioned usecase as data storage_. This data may or may not be used on second layers. Most likely it will be used for abuse of nodes. And people that are economically illiterate can’t seem to understand that adding a usecase to a monetary commodity is detrimental for its monetary premium (case in point: silver. It has more industrial use than gold, but lower monetary premium. After silver got demonetised when the bi-metal standard crumbled, it plummeted against gold).

Stability is a well maintained illusion.

Couldn't agree more.

Sure, that’s why I used quote/unquote. To see the illusion you must first unnormie yourself.

What makes it financial data as opposed to data storage? Interpretation. You call it data storage because you don't like the tech stack being built on top of it. I call it financial data because I see the use case and I embrace it. At the end of the day it's all zeros and ones. Data it still is. What you're calling "data storage" is simply more financial data but in a different format. You just don't like that it's not a standard bitcoin transaction, even though such transactions follow all consensus rules just fine. Permissionless, remember? Anyone can use the network. They don't require anyone's blessings to do so. As long as they follow the consensus rules. Which those transactions you don't like do. Free markets, remember? DeFi has immense adoption, why do you think that is? Are you smarter and more enlightened than the free market? And now bringing this to Bitcoin has - outside of maxi circles - pretty strong promise and interest - so again, do you know better than the market? It's only free markets until you disagree with the outcome? Censorship resistant, remember? And yet there are the detractors coming up with new and inventive ways to censor the things they don't like.

That’s a bunch of nihilistic crap. You can probably use certain tools to interpret the data put in the coinbase field of the genesis block by Satoshi as CSAM, but that’s not what this is. It serves no monetary purpose or function, and do you know who said that: the guy that pushed the change himself (Lopp). I can find you the cut from this interview if you don’t believe me. We are butchering Bitcoin for an edge case that a single company wants to sell, with no added benefit for the network whatsoever. Only tradeoffs and increased attack surface. This is called abuse in the real world no matter the fancy wrap you want to put it in. The censorship nonsense has been widely debunked also, largely by core supporters themselves. I can bring the receipts for that as well.

As we've established, you are rabidly against the new use cases, and that's fine. It would be boring around here if we all agreed on everything. Time will tell, eh?