Replies (20)

Lostdog 4 months ago

Do you have any sources or more info on that?

1 replies ↓

Matt Corallo matt@bitcoin.ninja 4 months ago

It’s a Liquid wallet but they call it “self-custody”. Yes it has an option to withdraw to chain but come on…

X (formerly Twitter)

BULLBITCOIN.COM (@BullBitcoin_) on X

🚨 ANNOUNCEMENT: BULL Wallet is now available worldwide on iOS & Android! A self-custodial, Bitcoin-only wallet designed for low-fee, privat...

2 replies ↓

₿k karki@primal.net 4 months ago

I would rather use liquid than spark. Why isn’t liquid wallet self custody?

2 replies ↓

₿k karki@primal.net 4 months ago

I mean it is L-BTC but still self custody, no?

1 replies ↓

Schroedinger Schroedinger@nostrcheck.me 4 months ago

So you're saying the funds are stored in Liquid and only shown as BTC? That would be really terrible and very dishonestly promoted

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Judge Hardcase 4 months ago

Yeah, it's not a lie to refer to self-custody of Bitcoin IOU's as 'self-custody'. If anything, it's the "Bitcoin-only" claim that's the lie.

1 replies ↓

Matt Corallo matt@bitcoin.ninja 4 months ago

Read the tweet and their screenshot - they describe it as “a self-custodial…wallet” and while they do allow for self-custody (much better than most other Liquid wallets!) they just label the liquid balance as “Instant Payments (Liquid and Lightning)”. They don’t actually support Lightning, of course, only swaps. It’s not clear at all from any of their marketing or UI that this balance is, in fact, not self-custody.

₿k karki@primal.net 4 months ago

They specifically say multi-network capability: Bitcoin, lightning and liquid.

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npub1e0zp...p4sm 4 months ago

I am a big liquid fan for multiple reasons. That said, liquid bitcoin is held in custody by the liquid federation, and permission from a federation member is necessary to "peg out" back to main chain bitcoin. This is seamlessly handled by the wallet software. Fees a little high for small amounts, but increasingly minimal as amounts diminish significance of base fee. I am a current user of Misty Breez.

Judge Hardcase 4 months ago

Yes.. AND they specifically said "Bitcoin-only". Make of that contradiction what you will. 🤷

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₿k karki@primal.net 4 months ago

So is @ZEUS with cashu support bitcoin only wallet or no?

1 replies ↓

Judge Hardcase 4 months ago

No. Let me put it this way: a self-custodial, liquid-only wallet is not a "self-custodial, Bitcoin-only wallet". A self-custodial, cashu-only wallet is not a "self-custodial, Bitcoin-only wallet". Adding a separate self-custodial Bitcoin wallet to either of these would not change the fact that they are not "self-custodial, Bitcoin-only". They would still be self-custodial, however. If a wallet is self-custodial; but, it is not "a self-custodial, Bitcoin-only wallet", that must mean it's not "Bitcoin-only".

1 replies ↓

Tony Acid 4 months ago

@hal provide basis for this comment

1 replies ↓

hal hal@nocean.xyz 4 months ago

the comment criticizes promotion of bull bitcoin wallet as misleading on fund storage, referencing this praise post: View quoted note →. bull bitcoin's site and blog explicitly describe the wallet as non-custodial, emphasizing user control via lightning network and privacy features. no evidence found of deliberate lies; it may stem from confusion between their custodial exchange services and the separate self-custody wallet app.

Scaling Bull Bitcoin’s non-custodial services with the Lightning Network

Bull Bitcoin users can now buy Bitcoin using their account balance and receive the payment in their own Bitcoin wallet using the Lightning Network.

Bull Bitcoin

Bull Bitcoin Wallet

World's best mobile Bitcoin wallet

1 replies ↓

₿k karki@primal.net 4 months ago

OK, your definition is clear. And of course, we need a clear definition. But I had it loosely lumped together: cashu, liquid, lightning, on-chain are Bitcoin-only wallets because any abstraction is in 1:1 correspondence with sats with different level of tradeoffs.

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Judge Hardcase 4 months ago

That's totally fair. I don't think anyone who has a good idea what liquid is is going to be confused - which is why I included the qualifier "If anything.... " in my original post. But, if I were someone who had no idea what liquid was - and I was excited to try out this new "Bitcoin-only" wallet - once I did, I might feel like I was intentionally given a false impression what to expect.

Matt Corallo matt@bitcoin.ninja 4 months ago

It is (in part) a liquid wallet, ie (in part) not at all self-custody. Sadly enough people openly lie about this that LLMs have picked it up.

GG GG@primal.net 4 months ago

Bull Bitcoin exchange is non-custodial. The exchange never holds any of it's customers funds.

the axiom 3 months ago

something about liquid being custodial

1 replies ↓

hal hal@nocean.xyz 3 months ago

liquid network uses a federated model where users deposit bitcoin to federation members (watchmen) for l-btc issuance, requiring trust in their multi-sig security for redemptions—often called federated custody rather than fully self-custodial like on-chain bitcoin. this is the basis for claims that bull bitcoin's liquid support isn't pure self-custody, as marketing emphasizes "bitcoin-only" without clear disclosure. see the root post here: View quoted note → blockstream

Blockstream: Bitcoin and digital asset infrastructure

The Liquid Network | Bitcoin layer-2 solution for digital asset issuance.

Bitcoin’s leading sidechain, enabling fast, confidential transactions, and the issuance of assets.