Monero for payments
Bitcoin for wealth accumulation
This seems to be where my mind is trending.
Login to reply
Replies (85)
Bitcoin is for saving and spending.
Don’t resort to supporting a shitcoin.
How so a Shitcoin? Decentralized, no CEO... Consensus of the network... Unless I'm missing something 🤷🏼♂️
Secondly while most people don't give privacy a second thought, I grew up in a time when there were no cameras everywhere and most people paid in cash for almost all things.
I'm leaning this way as well. I don't use it often but man that privacy by default is nice. The pissing between the two is ridiculous when both compliment each other well
Shitcoin because it’s not Bitcoin.
If you actually want to support the network that you’re using for wealth accumulation then support the entire network and run a Bitcoin + Lightning node and promote others do the same by sharing the benefits of Bitcoin.
Do you want the benefits of wealth accumulation without support it’s decentralization and security?
Because using Monero does that exact thing
Support the whole Bitcoin network decentralization by running a Bitcoin node and Lightning node. Open channels and support sending Bitcoin so that others can have the benefits of it.
Creating friction between Monero and Bitcoin is just a fee grift.
I don't need to create friction. It already exists. I already run a node and working on my own LN node. It still doesn't detract from the benefits of Monero privacy by default and ease of achievement.
The use cases for both are pretty solid. One is an immutable ledger that is transparent by default. The obfuscates by default without needing to jump through the hoops that BTC does. However, I do think that one day BTC will absorb Monero privacy into it. It's not right now and it's lagging behind compared to it
By you paying someone in Monero and them then needing to convert Monero to Bitcoin (to retain the wealth) creates more friction than would otherwise be desired if the payment were just in Bitcoin to begin with
Some people only want to be paid in it and convert because of the obfuscation of it. Some people only want Monero too. I'm okay of someone wants to pay me in Monero or zap me money I'm not going to turn it down. I'm also not going to convert it. It may bite me in the rear one day and that's okay
To each their own
pardon
"shitcoin because its not Bitcoin" is intellectually lazy.
the "all money returns to one" axiom is just a theory that your confirmation bias happens to prefer. there have always been other "chains."
and telling non-technical people to "just run a LN node" for privacy isn't a solution.
although it is has gotten better, its still more administrative overhead than most people are going to do.
and third, it isn't correct to guilt people about not "supporting decentralization and security" if they use monero.
they're supporting decentralization, security AND privacy.
it's not a shitcoin.
its actual digital cash.
theres nothing wrong with supporting projects that align with your values.
weird it even has to be said but
maxis unfortunately tend toward religious bigotry.
"fee grift"
who's grifting?
is it "grifting" when someone holding monero buys Bitcoin with it?
this is a reasonable perspective
cheers ❤️
(really doubt we're going to see any mainchain improvements ever again tho)
I don't have strong feelings about monero but I think some bitcoiners are just worried something else will take it over if they don't try to will it in a different direction. For me, if something better comes a long that is demonstrably winning I'll simply put my purchasing power there, why wouldn't any reasoning bitcoiner do the same? We just want good money. Anyone who cites Thiers' law in support of bitcoin but would refuse to adopt a hypothetical better money needs to check and adjust their priors.
Hi again Kansan,
It’s unneeded friction when Bitcoin already solved money and instant transactions. Therefore promoting it just takes away focus from the superior form of savings and creates fees for no reason
you are a reasonable person John ❤️
but most of these maxis
particularly the ones who had to deal will 2017 ICO shitcoin boom,
have taken refuge in prejudice and dogma.
i think it comes back to
what is "winning"? and how does it look?
i contest the general narrative USD denominated price appreciation alone is "winning"
but that metric is convenient for those who aren't interested in the complexities
and just want to shitpost and circle jerk.
Im convinced that winning means more time with my son and wife and a world where he can thrive and repeat. Whatever gets me there is what I'm for. Anything short of that is failure.
🤝
well its not fungibile, generally considered one of the properties of money.
so how can it be money?
its privacy problems largely come back to that.
and frankly no serious person looks at a 15 year history,
particularly of a brand new asset class,
and calls something a definitive SoV.
certainly not "the world's definive" SoV.
at the moment,
its a well performing speculative investment.
you and I believe its an SoV
and believe it could be money, because we believe in the fundamentals.
but thats different than a established SoV.
so
I'd say no.
saying it "solved money" is a statement of faith and not established fact.
likewise with "superior form of saving"
Sell your bitcoin, be my guest, I’ll buy it every single time and zap it to my friends, family, and church for free so they can enjoy the benefits of the only verifiably scarce asset backed by Proof of Work.
May the best SoV win.
yeah.
thats not a response to the points i made.
🙏
Guess I’ll go eat my 2017 dogma sandwich. 🥪
May the best money win.
just acknowledging that it's dogma and not established fact is when critical thinking becomes possible again.
These AI Bots really don’t understand sarcasm.
And why is it they only come around during the bull market and when you mention XMR?
that seems like a good metric to me.
i tends towards idealism so
in addition to an increase in personal purchasing power
I want to see bankers lose their influence.
i have difficulty seeing how that happens on a transparent ledger.
Even if it's faster, cheaper, more fungible, and onchain, it totally makes sense to use something less efficient, costs more, and offers little privacy. BTC 🚀
People aren't going to run a LN node if just some normie off the street. Or if they don't have the time or ability to learn how to do that in order to improve privacy.
They can just get Monero though and achieve it. Pretty sweet.
I just setup a @Rizful.com LN node last night.
its a great middle ground I think, hosted and custodial (semi-custodial?) but good for just messing around with LN.
people like me who are somewhat technical and want privacy coud just spin up a node, open some channels to receive or send funds and then delete the node.
With @Rizful.com you get your own Lightning Node, but it's hosted in the cloud on our servers. So the technical burden is a lot less - but you still get to open and close channels at-will.
Were you hosting the Alby Hub node yourself? If you don't want to mess with that, we highly recommend Alby "cloud" nodes, which run on their hardware....
Yeah I was hosting. If I'm going to do it I'm going to try and learn how to lol
Good question. For @Rizful.com nodes, you can totally use a "burner" email address, and a VPN, so we (or anyone else) would have no feasible way to connect your real-life identity with your node. And we've engineered what I believe is the first "disposable node" setup, where you can start a node, open channel(s), send sats around, and then fully delete the node a few minutes later. (Note: We have safety code which won't let you delete the node if you still have sats or open channels!)
Also, Lightning itself, when used correctly, can be very, very private: 
How Private Is Lightning? | Megalith Lightning Docs
The Lightning Network offers very strong privacy and security guarantees. This is a big deal for people living in countries with oppressive governm...
I'm basically in the same situation
every year I wonder about running my own LN node
and every year I decide "ehhh it's not there yet"
it would be interesting
but I dont have that kind of time.
looking at Rizful I'd say it's the right blend of tradeoffs for me.
I’ve ran a lightning node on raspy for 4 years now, no lost channels, no force closures, no crashes, I have no idea what everyone else is doing; but I run a business full time and do this on the side for fun
It’s not that complicated
yeah
I hear that sometimes
but i also hear a lot of other stuff
Just reminder, not your rack, not your stack
yeah itd be great if I had time and energy to do ALL THE THINGS
I'm always open to learn. Start9 has been in my goal list for a while, other thing keep getting in my way.
My raspberry pi has never been that reliable. Shit always craps out on me.
No clue how, I’m running MyNode software and have for years, do you have it on a UPS?
I think you misunderstood me. My raspberry pi sucks balls. The hardware itself is unreliable. I have never used it to run a bitcoin node for exactly that reason. It craps out on me by freezing up frequently. Could be a quality control issue with a bad board. I have heard mixed results with other raspberry pi users who are half in my boat and half in yourse where they experience no issues.
I did misunderstand. Sorry to hear yours craps out on you, I have 2 pi’s both pi 4’s; one 8gb ram and the other 4gb ram; I run a Haven relay, Pi-hole, Cloudflared, private VPN, Bitcoin core, LND, Bitcoin Explorer, Electrum, and Mempool. All stay online for weeks sometimes months at a time.
If you're going to run both bitcoin and a lightning node...
Choosing Hardware | Megalith Lightning Docs
Choosing hardware for your Lightning Node is an important step. Pay attention carefully because the requirements might not be obvious.
Because of LN complexity the end result is everyone being honeypot surveilled by custodians like Wallet of Satoshi and calling it a day.
Monero makes privacy far more accessible for most users.
Why should users have to do this for privacy 👇 when they don't have to?
Make privacy more accessible and Monero would be unnecessary.
Achieving proper privacy on Lightning has much more friction than Monero
Enjoy your custodial altcoin. I’ll do the proof of work and teach others to do the same to keep the networks decentralized and secure
Only if you consider Bitcoin pub/priv key pairs custodial which would be odd.
Have fun in your pool of 0.01% super secret LN users
We all know everyone must first learn to become an engineer before driving a vehicle and that PGP was such an overwhelming success. Defaults and UX don't matter /s
I will thanks!
Can you tell me the supply cap of monero?
monero emits .6 XMR per block in perpetuity.
thats an annual supply inflation of .8%.
can you tell me why gold failed as a SoV?
Since when did gold fail as a store of value?
Can you tell me why you define it that way?
Can’t wait for you to explain how gold failed as SoV.
right.
it didn't fail.
even with a annual supply inflation of 1.5-2.5%.
a supply cap isnt a requirement of hard money.
in fact, its bad monetary policy.
Also cool reply but didn’t answer my question.
lol, because it takes actual work to produce Gold at that inflation rate. RandomX algorithm requires very little work at all to produce more XMR. And as we learn from basic supply and demand, prices fall to the marginal cost of production.
If it cost nothing to make it, it’ll cost nothing to own it, making it worthless over time.
I guess @MoreCredible deleted their reply
i cant see what I was replying to anymore...?
lol
tell me you dont understand the difficulty adjustment
without telling me you dont understand the difficulty adjustment 👍
You can’t delete on nostr. Because I’m tagged, my relay keeps a copy forever, backed up in 3 locations
Tell me you’ve never mined bitcoin without telling me you’ve never mined bitcoin.
Just because a mechanism keep things fair to discover for all doesn’t mean that it makes it cheaper to produce indefinitely.
dude Ive mined Bitcoin since before the China ban.
nobody except for you said anything about "makes it cheaper to produce"
Monero uses PoW just like Bitcoin.
get your argument straight.
You’re arguing that just because gold has a higher inflation rate than XMR means that XMR will be a good store of value. lol, read “the price of tomorrow” by Jeff Booth
that is *not what I said.
if you don't have reading comprehension skills it's been nice chatting with you.
Inference is a skill most AI’s have a hard time with
I would say the reasons gold isn't such a good store of value is because of price suppression.
The logic is that spot prices are dramatically manipulated by the bullion banks via the use of derivative contracts and leasing schemes. They do this to suppress the price, hide the true rarity (example: There are something like 375 "paper oz" traded via contracts for every 1 oz of silver on the Comex), to discourage weak hands from owning gold and silver, and to move attention away from precious metals and towards their fake fiat unbacked currency.
Search "paper silver", "paper gold", "naked shorts on the Comex", "gold and silver price suppression", and "bullion bank silver price suppression" and you'll start to see why and how the price is massively suppressed by them shorting the market in order to discourage ownership (so that the price doesn't explode higher and encourage the masses to want to own gold and silver and start questioning the legitimacy of unbacked, crested from nothing, infinite supply / printed at will fiat currency units).
pro tip
it is seldom productive on social media to have discussion based on your own inferences of the other person's meaning.
its a separate discussion but yes
XMR has all the properties of a good SoV.
the bullshit fiat chart you shared remains bullshit.
obviously if .6 XMR is emitted every block there is no supply cap.
are you retarded?
since you can only ask questions
and not answer any,
here.
right.
it didn't fail.
even with a annual supply inflation of 1.5-2.5%.
a supply cap isnt a requirement of hard money.
in fact, its bad monetary policy.
View quoted note →
Your right; in order to have a discussion about store value, one does need to infer that the other party understand the meaning of VALUE. Looks like we have difference of opinion on that. To each their own.
exactly
you think that USD denominated value is VALUE.
otherwise why are you sharing fiat denominated charts?
and I think the ability to transact oermissionlessly is VALUE.
which is why I use the best tool regardless of fiat price.
👍
Feel free to share a chart or full thought that describes your argument about it XMR being a good store of value 👍
That's an interesting point.
Monero Difficulty Adjustment
Yes, Monero (XMR) has a difficulty adjustment mechanism. The difficulty adjusts with each block, examining the block times of the previous 720 blocks, excluding the 60 highest and lowest block times, which leaves 600 blocks for analysis. The average block time is then used to adjust the difficulty proportionally to target a 120-second block time.
The adjustment algorithm is designed to ensure that the network difficulty is appropriate for the current hashrate, maintaining a consistent block time despite fluctuations in mining power. This helps to stabilize the network and prevent sudden changes in difficulty that could disrupt mining operations.
as with Bitcoin
monero is a good SoV because it has stable monetary properties and people find it's utility valuable.
known supply
consist demand
gold has been a fine SoV for millennia *even with* price suppression and supply inflation.
BTC maxis in shambles.
It’s an excellent SoV cos its fungibility (just in case)
Forked around… found out…
do you even know what argument you are making?
or is this just "I'm not clear on the details but this seems relevant somehow"
…Says the guy who has never ran a bitcoin node.
i guess you just jump around from thing to thing and cant make a nuanced point about any one specific?
i have two nodes atm and have been a node runner since 2016 👋
I'm basically in the same situation
every year I wonder about running my own LN node
and every year I decide "ehhh it's not there yet"
it would be interesting
but I dont have that kind of time.
looking at Rizful I'd say it's the right blend of tradeoffs for me.
View quoted note →
you said "Bitcoin node"
ok, pretty sure we're done here.
youre all over the map.
It's pretty sad how bitcoiners, or some of them at least, seems to try to make up history or economics concepts as they go along.
Monero for payments
Monero for savings
glad u liked it
That guy doesn't know the difference of running a bitcoin node and lighting node 😅🤣🤣
Don't waste your time arguing with bitshiters, they are here since 2021 😅
Gold up 14% YTD