Replies (55)
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NGU mattered when there was low awareness. We’re past that stage. Everyone is aware now but for the wrong reasons. NGU only promotes investment asset narratives and people will continue treating it as such.
I hear ya. and i mostly agree.
but the idea of "we" all acting in a certain way is anthithetical to bitcoin beyond following the rules defined by bitcoin.
These kind of moments will be many. but they do not define "us".
Makes the most sense in my mind to use these moments where attention is captivated to direct to the more valuable things like what you mentioned 🧡
Yeah I realize people will act the way they choose to - I’m not stating anything to change anyone’s mind.
But the investment angle will only crowd out the people who need bitcoin most and put it into the hands who only wish to maximize fiat gains.
At least by posting what I have to say, I can identify the people who get that.
Bitcoin for Normies and Mass adoption ❤️ thru smart education 🧠. Is key 🔑. I explain this world to a teacher and she completely got it.
Also building tools to enable zap commerce
This literally makes no sense from an “economics” perspective.
Economics is the allocation of scarce resources.
We should not spend bitcoin until the things we’re spending bitcoin on are worth the opportunity cost of bitcoin.
The higher the conversion rate of bitcoin into fiat, the more willing people will be to convert their bitcoin into goods/services. But as long as bitcoin has 100%+ CAGRs ahead of us, why the heck would you part with any meaningful amount of btc?
Serious question. The developers on NOSTR need a little bit of understanding as to how finance works…
What is ETF?
Thats high signal right there, friend 🤙
View quoted note →If NGU and financial products don’t allow bitcoin to be what society needs it to be, bitcoin was never going to work.
This is how monetization happens. NGU is literally required. None of "the good stuff" is defendable in the long term without monetization.
This 100%
Good take
I think in a way you’re both right and those investoooors can get fukt trying to trade bitcoin as if it’s not the hardest money in the known universe
It may put "normal" people in a state of safety. They're scared & change is hard. This is what resembles the financial system they know.
Bitcoiners & orgs supporting devs & keeping the code secure/safe will be a bulwark against radical & dangerous changes.
Ever keeping in mind that en masse people are stupid. Everyone one of us is susceptible to group think and laziness.
#staysovereign & #stayfree my friend
Nailed it 👆
I used to think like Karnage.. F NGU… but
@npub1uvha...0mtz made me aware that it’s NGU that make people remember conversations they had with you and realize how wrong they were and start heading down the rabbit hole. It also helps those of us that have been humbly stacking for years to potentially get more involved in bitcoin and less involved in our fiat jobs and lives.
It’s a catch 22. The poorest among us need #Bitcoin the most but it may only be NGU that opens their eyes to it. 🤷🏻♂️
If node count went exponential, it be fcken bullish AF.
It’s not that black or white. You can have a long period of education, building out tools to facilitate trade, adoption by people that need it most. And you could have the opposite - fast appreciation, investment class, trading back and forth for fiat maximizing.
It’s not a matter of will it work or not, but how the distribution will play out over time.
Do we want the wealthiest people to accumulate most, or do we want all people to understand and adopt it?
I believe over the long course it’ll distribute well enough even through trading, but the path to most desirable outcome comes faster if the number doesn’t go up.
See my previous comment.
Disagree. Pumps get normies to notice. It's their first step down the rabbit hole. Bitcoin is inevitable. I'm not worried about the cronies. Bitcoin already works. The incentives are already fixed. The more normies start to notice, the less broken money is ruling. Pumps = broken money losing power.
We’ve had plenty of time to notice by now.
How is bitcoin pumping keeping broken money in power?
🙏🏽
I agree with you much more than I agree with ngu is essential..without question. But I do understand the “ngu helps” narrative.
Your first post in this thread is 🔥🔥🔥btw
Yeah you won’t catch me doing TA or making price predictions but the cuckbuck exchange rate definitely does matter. Not to me personally much, i’m stacking at least $0.50/hr regardless due to my obscene financial privilege (being Murican)
We’re craving a superior sound money that can transmit value over space AND time.
Without NGU you’ve got a similar result to the fiat system we have today, albeit without the central authorities that give the illusion of comfort and confidence to the masses.
NGU is enabling transmission of value across time. Forgetting that feature is the opposite of “humble” … it is full of hubris. We all only have so much time to stack before NGU tech works its magic … stack hard while you can be creative to get as many sats as you can in the epoch you’re within.
Complaining about NGU is a weird and irrational dynamic of how early we are. Seems like there are plenty of people out there that still want bitcoin to be a “science project” rather than a global reserve currency.
They may notice but I can't tell you how many people I've tried to educate and they just don't get it. I suspect some will be calling tomorrow. More people will start their journey to spending and circulating.
Yea no doubt. But I’m still not sure if that’s going to be a net plus globally for counties that need it most.
I concur
You aren’t wrong on much of what you said.. but there are swaths of impoverished countries and people that need #Bitcoin. They’ve been lied to, fell for the bullshit narrative they’ve been told about it and the more we can educate them properly and get sats in their hands before a parabolic move, the better. Imo
For sure, i hear ya
This is great for the hodlers in El Salvador and other struggling countries around the world.
It’s also sitting at 30,000 US Dollars give or take for 1 #Bitcoin. Hardly a science project at this point
Disagree. Bitcoin means different things to different people. Gold used to be the best form of money, and it is/was used for both investment and payments. An ETF increases the number of people with a vested interest in bitcoin’s success, and it will increase bitcoins “market cap” which increases its influence in the world. Usage is good, and investment is good.
TLDR (and this goes for everyone)
I disagree. Bitcoin is blind. Everyone buys bitcoin at the price they deserve. The West has superior corporate and legal products relative to most of the developing world. If they want more bitcoin, they need to reform their governments and become more investment friendly.
Millions of points of view. We’re all here for the birth of the realest money the world has ever known. Money touches all aspects of our life. Everyone will have a different perspective on how they want this to play out. In the end #Bitcoin gonna #bitcoin and I’m just glad I’m alive to see some of it
My point stands 👇🏼🫨💀
ETF stands for Exchange Traded Fund. It's just a fund listed on stock exchanges that have the blessing of the SEC. Basically it lets an organization buy shares of something like gold, oil, corn, foreign currency, etc. You can have a futures ETF which trades on speculative prices not tied to the real asset, like oil futures (essentially state-sanctioned gambling). However, this Blackrock ETF is interesting because it is a spot ETF, meaning in order to sell "shares" of bitcoin on stock exchanges, they need to have that amount of bitcoin as collateral. They will need to buy actual bitcoin to sell their ETF "paper" bitcoin to investors.
Agreed for the most part but would want to point out that the bitcoin price is a very good (and arguably only) marketing tool that bitcoin has.
It's even more than what you can think in plain sight. Increased bitcoin price means lowered prices of everything else, leading to greater abundance, creating learning curves which can make everyone more productive.
How Learning Inverts the Supply Curve
With every doubling of total units sold, unit costs drop between 20 and 30 percent.
They can FTD fake shares forever legally. Market makers can create fake etf shares as normal part of business bc liquidity (see shares sold not yet purchased). I hope they all blow up.
Investment angle dominating is frustrating. But without pumps, you wouldn't have the "came for gains, stayed for freedom".
If it takes 4 years to get from the gains mindset into the freedom mindset, and if we exponentially double the user base each 4-year cycle, then there's always gonna be 50:50 freedom:gains. But with faster rate of growth than just doubling every 4 years, the newbie gains seekers will always dominate (population wise).
The ways to change the ratio without slowing the growth would be to convert gain seekers into freedom seekers faster with education. Which I think is successfully happening.
ETF will skew off the incoming balance, but the stronger we will be few years down the road.
NGU can happen from increased adoption and from rich bags buying in, but you knew that.
You said "Pumps are bad.". Only arguing against that. Pumps are required.
I disagree. In Canada we have had a spot ETF for over a year. It can be held in registered accounts and one would not have to pay any tax for any of the capital gains if held in these types of accounts.
I have three friends who wouldn't have gone near btc, without these ETFs being approved and the tax advantages that they recieve. Right or wrong, they were victims of the FUD surrounding bitcoin, and the approval of an ETF legitimatised BTC as a viable place to put one's funds.
After holding the paper bitcoin for 3 months I approached them about the benefits of holding actual BTC in cold storage. I was able to convince two of them and the third continues to hold his in the ETF in his registered accounts.
I know this is anectodal, but as you argue for nostr, we have to have options for those who are not ready for the responsibility of holding their own keys.
Good counterpoints. Thank you.
Yes. Definitely don't buy paper bitcoin from the likes of Blackrock. This is just good news for us hodlrs with the real thing. Accept no substitute for #Bitcoin
Perhaps, but it seems like something like this was always inevitable.
Upside: it's happening at a time that more and more people are skeptical of the incumbent system. Every obvious gov't overreach in the coming years will nudge more people to explore self custody of an asset that - in their minds - might finally be proving to be reliable.
