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This looks really good, NOSTR needs this type of experience for users. Best of luck!

Merci 🙏

Btw: @verbiricha Displaying them as Mails also allows us to have a Mail tab in the #communikeys where the Community profile can message you personally. Very useful imo.

Primarily I use these tools for private communication: 1. Mail For talking about a single topic at a time, threads in Discord server messages also kinda work for this thing. Different messages from the same user are treated as different matters. I need to be able to always have access to old conversations done in this way. NIP-17 seems ideal for this 2. Private DMs I use WhatsApp and Signal etc for talking to people that I know. WhatsApp "feels" ideal in this case, because your identifier (phone number) is also a private matter. Here, I would like as much privacy as I can get, so NIP-EE (MLS) stuff seems ideal. I don't even necessarily want a single identifier for an app like this. I would much rather have a different identifier (I think SimpleX does that) for each person that I am talking to 3. Public Inbox My Instagram, Twitter, Telegram and Nostr DMs are open for people to reach out to me, where I don't have to reply if I don't want to. Here my identifier is not a private matter. Most people also maintain two private/public mail IDs for the same reason. I would like to be able to go back and read all old messages here, so I think NIP-17 works better. A mail like UX won't feel right here. 4. Timely groups I create or join a lot of groups on WhatsApp and Signal, for small timely topics like a discussion about a coming field trip with friends, or negotiation related to a freelancing project with the client. This can be better maintained via mail threads, but the only reason I prefer WhatsApp groups is because my mail accounts are full of spam, and conversations done in this way can be taken to a DM very quickly. Can't easily switch to a messaging mode in Gmail, and might miss something important. These also work as NIP-17 mails 5. Persistent groups I join groups of Bitcoin communities etc, where I might not know or trust all the other participants. I wouldn't want to be directly reachable by other community members from these groups. I think I would prefer NIP-EE groups for this The question is, how do you design all the UI/UX around all this stuff

Thanks for laying those use cases out like that :prayinghands: Mail meets Message UX (Nip-17) :pointright: 1, 3 and sometimes 4 (freelancing example) - You can put whatever limits (paywall, WoT, etc...) on your inbox you want here - Automatic responses, Reactions, etc... can facilitate handling them without time-waste Private Groups (Nip-EE) :pointright: 2, 5 and sometimes 4 - Extra Secure - You can have way more than just Chat in there (any content type you can think of actually) - Depending on how key packages are handled, you can't really be contacted directly. And those keypackges tsill travel through Nip-17 first anyway (at least online). Public Communities (Nip-CC) :pointright: For moderated groups that are public

The app context is relevant, but generally I don't like the "Mail" term, it seems to me forcibly old style and it conflicts with the actual email. I think "Messages" is a good common denominator for one-to-one conversations; unfortunately, it is a quite long word in English, but you can't have everything in life.

It maps on best to the "Mail" content type best. That's what I'm after. Nostr Article → very clear what the content type does Nostr Video → same Nostr Repo → same Nostr Mail → same Nostr Message → Uhm, wait what? What are we talking about. Nostr DMs → Oops, that cannot be a thing without a centralized server. Also: Nostr Private Group → very clear that it's something like Signal/Simplex (not Nip-17)

> Nostr Message → Uhm, wait what? What are we talking about. SMS (Short Message System), DM (Direct Message), Messanger, etc A message, what else could be in a social context? A communication between two parties. This seems quite logical and straightforward. > Nostr DMs → Oops, that cannot be a thing without a centralized server. Why? NIP-17 are decentralized DMs. And the NIP actually call them exactly "direct messages".

These are also exactly the kind of messages you might want to receive in your legacy-email btw. Venn diagram on point :Check:

Message is even more confusing as it can relate to dozens of specs: Kind 9, Nip-EE, Nip-04, Kind 1311, Zap messages, etc...

In @Zapchat I cannot: - have Communities and Private Groups (both with a very clear Chat group UX and global state) - then also mix in "Messages" or "DMs" in there somehow, that have entoerly different UX/UI characteristics Or have a separate tab "Messages" for it, lol. The other stuff aren't messages??? 🙃

Sorry I don't really understand the context 😅 I will wait to see the final app.

Specifications should not be so relevant to the end user, NIP-4, NIP-17, and NIP-EE can be easily collected in the same Messages area, and often merged in the same discussion (e.g., NIP-4 + NIP-17 + Zap message), with different indicators (colors/icons/labels) to highlight strengths (privacy, security, attached payment, etc). Kind 9 & 1311 have they own specific context, and possibile mentions shuld go to a (tendentially ephemeral) notification area.

This is the post, I am not sure if Niel thought about making it interoperable with existing DMs but I liked the design and it was in my mind since then to make an email like interface for NIP-17 DMs View quoted note →

Is this open for testing?

The app, almost. The mail UX, less almost. The Nip-17 comms, no. No part of that spec proved useful.