jb55's avatar
jb55 _@jb55.com 4 months ago
after much research the correct answer to this is personalized pagerank
fiatjaf's avatar fiatjaf
View quoted note → What if we replaced follower counts with some other addictive metric in Nostr clients -- but one that was specific to Nostr and could actually work reliably and not be gamed? (No, I am not talking about zaps, these can also be gamed, and this is not a trivia question, I don't have any answers.)
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Replies (20)

Constant's avatar
Constant Constant@techno-ethica.com 4 months ago
It wont be easy, but we will to teach the world the web always was subjective; you trust platforms to come up with a number, on what the platform beliefs to be real users. People might be temped to think whatever pops up eventually in the Nostr context is some degraded thing from what we have in the legacy system, but it is probably actually an upgrade
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npub1lvfk...ukxq 4 months ago
Goodhart’s Law makes a single good metric impossible.
Goodhart's law - Wikipedia
 “When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure." The only solution is so many different measures (ie different one for each user) that it’s unfeasible for spammers to target every one.
1 replies ↓
jb55's avatar
jb55 _@jb55.com 4 months ago
Yeah just realized they are using it! Didn’t know that. we will likely do something similar inside our embedded relay
jb55's avatar
jb55 _@jb55.com 4 months ago
hence *personalized* pagerank. It would be different per-user based on their interactions
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npub1jvxv...7yqz 4 months ago
Wouldn't that require downloading too much data to fit in mobile budget of bandwidth and battery life? Otherwise why don't we have client side search engines? How is this application different from the needs of search?
1 replies ↓
Karadenizli's avatar
Karadenizli 4 months ago
The more I think of this, the more I'm convinced that there shouldn't be any attempt to provide metrics of anything.
jb55's avatar
jb55 _@jb55.com 4 months ago
nostrdb is super optimized for ingesting and storing lots of notes. It’s not really a big deal. Things are incrementally updated and cached. We also have an embedded local note search. We’re making it to be offline first. we try not to rely on or trust any external third party services, especially for things as important as web of trust calculations.
1 replies ↓
jb55's avatar
jb55 _@jb55.com 4 months ago
not to mention in many private relay scenarios, its not like some centralized wot service would even have access to the notes needed to calculate web of trust. Many of them might be things like private zaps or interactions on non public relays.
1 replies ↓
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npub1jvxv...7yqz 4 months ago
How does the data required grow as the network grows? If Nostr is the size of Bluesky, how much would my phone need to download?
1 replies ↓
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npub1jvxv...7yqz 4 months ago
Yes but the pagerank of the people I interact with is most useful when I consider the opinions of people I don't interact with. If I am following a feed in a topic that isn't popular in my following their rank will be low. Still, happy to watch this experiment unfold.
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