Thread

Insh'Allah

I stopped posting on twitter

Ohohoho.. Interesting.. Among many Muslim influencers, these polarising icons that notice it first.. 😬

Its time!

I can see why! It's good for a laugh sometimes but not much benefit

Tbh they're probably never coming to a platform like nostr as these influencers don't care that much about individual sovereignty, but hopefully some of their followers might be tempted to come here.

Like many of us agree, BTC and Nostr are not for a fiat and algo-chasing mind. The more the "normal" people who join, the better. 😉

Not enough Hijabi influencers on here to build an audience on am afraid.

Maybe it's time for a shift in perspective, for some new influencers. Algo-free influencers, lol. Nah, seriously, those fiat social media influencers really have a tough time under fair conditions. They're used to having the algorithm propping them up. Once that's gone, they just become regular folks. And most of them don't like that, they're too addicted. These are totally different worlds.

Be like Will. One in a krillion. Start becoming weird.

It was always going to be American Muslims leading the way in this.

"not your average Mo"

Whether people accept it or not, to me, America's best (or worst) quality trait is their loudness and pride in raising their voices. So at least to me, not so surprising.

Tbh I wish it were different... We'd be able to onboard many more if Muslims in Muslim countries would lead the way. Not much influence we American Muslims have... Comparatively. Or maybe that doesn't matter if we can build more influence in cyber.

That would not bring the crowd we're rrally looking for. I'm not to say they aren't welcome cause of course the are but we shiuld need that algo desire click bait stuff to thrive here. We actually have a much of muslimas on here already too 😏

Just build it ourselves We don't need the sisters to become Hijabi influencers anyway. Just do our own things, outside the algorithm-minded strategy.

Someone has to start

I get what you mean. We've got some really sharp Fiqh scholars in Turkey, for example, but they've grown up under a fiat system and their paycheck depends on the government. So they'll never dive into stuff like self-sovereignty and free money. They're also way too tied to this idea of a "strong state" historically, and in the recent centuries it's been the difference between surviving or going under for them. And they're right about that, history confirms that. And then you've got total laymen like us, who have probably only wrapped our heads around one thing, which is how truly awful Riba is and that we absolutely don't want it for ourselves or our kids. It's that gap that's got us all frozen up.

This Nostr/BItcoin world is heavily male dominated already.

American Muslims will aways have a sway over cyber (at least in it's current English dominant way). Things aren't geographically limited anymore. A Muslim cyber culture by default is already influencial.

As it should be.. We pave, so that the sisters will easier time.. It's male-dominated, but not yet Muslim dominated.. So, a lot of work is on us 😁

Yes! To get out of the just surviving mode you need a society that doesn't have that as a concern, hence why Muslims in the west are an oportunity. We need to take our riba/btc knowledge and start applying it to other areas. Governance is an easy next step.

Honestly, I'm not totally comfortable with those thoughts. We might be able to ignore some individual scholars who aren't up to date, but not the whole concept of scholarship itself. We need a solid foundation in traditional Fiqh.

Ma sha' Allah Malaysians don't mess around with patriarchy.

Straight to jail

"fiqh is dead" nostr:naddr1qq2ksktftqcx24rv94e45knkfeayz66dw44r2qgmwaehxw309a6xsetxdaex2um59ehx7um5wgcjucm0d5hsyg8nx2zjzl5hdtvu4uz5v3z6mqg8mwv0vkt8eh8xenj9ucx6qrhr9gpsgqqqw4rs8glwxq I'm still on the hunt for scholarly alignement but clearly moving into position that we need to rebuild everything from bottom up.

🤣 Hah! I am milder, way milder, than some of the Malaysian brothers in Nostr/Twitter. And patriarchy is the way, but an authentic Islamic patriarchy. Not some redpill western sloppy pathetic patriarchy nonsense which can't even stand on its own. ✌️

Asia doesn't seem to have a huge feminist problem like we have.

If compared to the Western world, yeah seems small, but it is emerging nonetheless.. It's just that they can't yet outright criticise Islam, afraid of the backlash and being called bigoted. But, they are trying. 😬

We've got some of that alignment already, like check out Faraz Adam and Seeker's Guidance for example. That gives me hope.

Faraz Adam is actively working with "Islamic" shitcoins. He's pro-crypto, not pro bitcoin. Engagement with majlis members has been pretty hostile from my observstions. Wouldn't call him aligned. Seeker's is just echoing, right?

Who had contact to him? I didn't know of that. Just saw a video on YT where he interviewed a scholar who had studied Bitcoin and he seemed also very enthusiastic about it.

nostr:npub1uzfp6cgwue2njm86cmyeq7m26y0n58w72acq98sjsnnv4c87002s6857h3 can speak more to this. I know he's on the boards of a bunch of crypto projects and know folks from those who have spoken with him and he's still very fiat minded, just open to future possibilities in crypto and doesn't see the space as haram.

I think the alignment is mostly superficial. Like yeah, mufti faraz Adam and Joe Bradford call bitcoin halal and at one point, they spoke favorably of it (especially during times when the cast majority of Muslim scholars were still calling it haram!) but I've been coming round to the realization that these alignments are useless, especially now that you've dragged me here to Nostr 😂 Seekers guidance, qalam institute, NAK, etc, are never going to embrace Bitcoin usefully like how we are doing it, because from their core worldview, none of these scholars and institutions care about individual sovereignty and carving out a path out of the permissioned surveillance state. Of course, we should keep the channels of dialogue open, it's just... It's hard for me to keep believing we're on the same team as them when they've made no effort to even see Bitcoin maximalism or #DigitalHijra as valid concepts. We're toxic cyber misfits with laser eyes, that's how they currently see us. As one Muslim Bitcoin Summit attendee, who is the Cofounder of Yaqeen Institute said "you guys came off as kind of like a cult"

That's really a shame. Especially NAK is so close to what we're talking about that you'd think he wouldn't have any issue with it. But we're just missing that bigger framework, that broader understanding we could use to spread our ideas under. Our topic has to break out of its purely technical box, because in the end, for the scholars, it's all "just tech" that they or anybody could skip if they wanted. They don't get yet that in this case, they actually need the tech to, like, follow the rule on avoiding Riba, and that it doesn't work with gold the way it used to. I think THAT's the real big challenge: Our tech isn't optional anymore, it's not some hobby or nice-to-have convenience. It's turned into a straight-up necessity. That's why, and only why, I respect the SAIF movement (a little bit 😏).

Fiqh is dead since the Abbasids. The only way is to rebuild on the original fundements. And these fundements are anti-statist by default, unlike most of the traditional Fiqh. Since i was a kid in the local masjid in the levant i learned that Islam will be weird when in returns in futur, as memtioned in the famous hadith. I think this anti-statis feature is the most weird thing for most people now.

So true. people should know that cryptology is part of Aqida

How's NAK's economic series progressing? I haven't caught up past the first 2 eps. Does he mention bitcoin at all? But yes, this fundamental misunderstanding of technology is key and it boils down to key philosophical (read theological) deviations between Islam and western modernity (which like it or not is based on Christian principles). In fact, it goes beyond that all the way back to early Islamic disagreements over how the Islamicate manages property rights and whether the issue of riba should be applied there. And scholars basically given up on that debate centuries ago.

I think you're right on the momey here! And the anti-statist element scares them as it reminds them of khawarij or mutazila ideas.