What does #devstr think about outbox relay?
franzap's avatar franzap
I want a relay implementation that fully supports #outbox so I don't have to code it in the client. Clients connect to these single swappable proxies assuming the tradeoff: increased bandwidth/battery efficiency and a push toward more decentralization via outbox, at the cost of increased trust in the operator. At this point Nostr suffers more from bad user experience than potential censorship, which would be short lived anyway. Tradeoff makes sense to me. Does this exist or it needs to be created? Would an additional spec be required? #asknostr #devstr
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i've been on team "client connects to one personal relay that then does all the other work" for a while. i come from a background of building personal servers, so i have a bias here. i've experieneced first hand the power of having an extremely powerful and massively responsible single personal server + an infinite number of super light edge clients that offload all the work and trust to that server. when it is fully yours, you can trust it entirely. this really changes everything - including the worries about nsec safety. bonus point: your server can even serve your edge device all the client code it needs. future bonus point that will sound insane to most people but it is in development: your personal server is a single "logical device" that is actually spread across many physical devices, including your phone, the cloud, your home. an omni-present, device-agnostic, cryptographically-identified virtual machine.
Big not a fan of outbox for privacy.
ChipTuner's avatar ChipTuner
Tip for those using nostr #outbox web clients wanting some more privacy. This may cause you not to see some notes if you exclusively use "offline" relays. If you use uBlock origin (if you don't you should consider it), you can add a new filter to your filter list to allow only certain requests. Example: *$websocket,domain=outbox.client.com,denyallow=outbox.client.com|nostr.land|nostr1.com|gitcitadel.com|nostr.build This will block all websockets when you browse outbox.client.com, except those domains listed after denyallow=. More specifically its saying the rule matches (websockets) when those conditions are true (site != denyallow). So you can stack them, get more granular etc. I would suggest taking this a step further and adding another rule, but instead of `$websocket`, you use `third-party` which will block ALL third-party requests, so it will block loading pfps and nip05s and images and CDN content from untrusted websites. Yeah it will make your viewing experience worse, but you can stop telling the world what your doing when you're scrolling your feed. Here are the docs: https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Static-filter-syntax I'm sure you could probably give your favorite AI this link and ask it to generate a "new denyallow rule" for you.
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how does this interact with what you're saying?
vinney...axkl's avatar vinney...axkl
i've been on team "client connects to one personal relay that then does all the other work" for a while. i come from a background of building personal servers, so i have a bias here. i've experieneced first hand the power of having an extremely powerful and massively responsible single personal server + an infinite number of super light edge clients that offload all the work and trust to that server. when it is fully yours, you can trust it entirely. this really changes everything - including the worries about nsec safety. bonus point: your server can even serve your edge device all the client code it needs. future bonus point that will sound insane to most people but it is in development: your personal server is a single "logical device" that is actually spread across many physical devices, including your phone, the cloud, your home. an omni-present, device-agnostic, cryptographically-identified virtual machine.
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I mean basically this yeah except that only us bigtime nerds are going to do that, so I understand why clients want to give the power to users directly so they don't need to run their own mothership at home, but I at least want a "You may see less things if you don't use a aggregation relay but it's more private" button. The issue is have is that web clients do things on demand. Servers and hosters can easily know when im scrolling and on what client. Hell i host my pfp and @GitCitadel nip05 and I can know when some people are online and which one of us is more active or trending just by watching server logs in stream. And I don't want to hear the catastrophisation argument from anyone: "nostr isn't meant to be private" or, "Relays can already see that". No they can't see when Im on the pot scrolling, or in bed if that's all coming from my own relay, that just stores event's for me to load. Just give me the option. Obv that's not the case, so I made that note to share how i've disabled outbox forcibly with uBlock.
> except that only us bigtime nerds are going to do that Today. When I'm using the term 'personal server' in the future tense, I'm kind of using it in an uncommon manner where said personal server is a single binary that is easily kicked off and automatically run "everywhere". Manageable in a web interface with a single button click - easy enough for grandma. (to wit: my former (defunct) company was doing exactly this: . but the "defunct" part there is important. It's super difficult to run a profitable business in this weird dark corner of tech at the moment, but I do believe this is coming in the future. we were too early :)
What you have going on over there is way over my head! > It's super difficult to run a profitable business in this weird dark corner of tech at the moment, but I do believe this is coming in the future. we were too early I'm hoping you're right, and by that I mean I'm betting on this. Although I will say, im on the team: Grandman shouldn't have a computer. She should sit in her rocking chair and enjoy the company of real humans and activities with family not doom scroll which is all I see now.
frphank's avatar
frphank 4 months ago
Sounds like Grandma wants the results without the work.