Thread - Nostr Hypermedia

Laeserin laeserin@theforest.nostr1.com 6 months ago

WoT is about endorsement. That's why it has "trust" in the name. Knowing who some npub follows doesn't necessarily tell me anything at all, about what they're actually looking at. I used to have over 1k follows, and I just looked at my relay feeds and some lists. You would need the relay traffic to know, and you can't necessarily monitor all of their relays. I was happy to follow everyone back because it didn't mean anything. > The current follow problem that I have can be solved client-side; where one can see whether the follow is reciprocal (why doesent Amethyst have this?) and how long since that person has been "active." (e.g. likes, zaps, profile updates, posts, replies, etc.) Then it should be trivial to unfollow dead accounts and the follow-list is more meaningful. We actually have mini-clients that do this. I've used them, repeatedly, but it quickly leads to a dull, low-signal feed because the people who are the most-interesting to read are also often the ones that post less-frequently or more often on private or protected/AUTH relays, and they are much much less-likely to "follow back". I'm well aware that my @Silberengel account has a rock-bottom WoT, because it has no follows, and my @Laeserin has a lowish one, as I don't follow that many npubs, but I leave it like that, on purpose. In protest. I think follows are commie, designed to reduce our freedom, create rampant shadow-banning, force us to make all of our contacts public and easily searchable, and steer us all to be drooling influencer groupies. Everything I've seen happen, on Nostr, since I got here, just solidifies that opinion for me. There has not been any counter-evidence. The whole situation has just steadily degraded. Most people disagree with me, and cannot imagine how Nostr could work well without Kind 03, but I am not Most People and never have been.

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Replies (3)

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ me@mleku.dev 6 months ago

my second degree of follows auto-whitelist design makes it possible for outbox model and personal relays to actually work. the "owners" of a relay have follow lists, and all the npubs on that follow list are spidered to find their follow lists, and from that the relay generates a whitelist automatically that changes whenever users update their lists. it's a repurposing of kind 3 that i think makes sense - it makes a complete list of all the people who i might want to read or message. with this list created, my personal relay functions effectively as inbox/outbox and so long as the people in the first and second degree of the owners follow graph use auth, they can post to the relay. one of the things i have discovered, though, is the great majority of people are using clients that pick up these relay lists and then spam the heck out of the relay trying to publish events to it... but they don't bother authing. oh so sad. doesn't really use that much bandwidth, so idc. but the people who use good clients that do auth, and are in my second degree graph, are found on my relay. and there's quite a few of my follows that do. the fly in the ointment is just the attitude of most funded client devs not giving a damn about implementing auth properly. but, seriously, fuck them. you can easy enough let your frens know "hey, i don't see your events on my relay, what client are you using? because it's ghey, i recommend x, y and z" and if the other person cares, they try that and voila. connectivity, without centralization.

Brunswick Brunswick@stacker.news 6 months ago

> I'm well aware that my @Silberengel account has a rock-bottom WoT, because it has no follows, and my @Laeserin has a lowish one, as I don't follow that many npubs, but I leave it like that, on purpose. Your sense of WoT is reverse to the way I understand it. If your @Silberengel account follows someone, that doesent increase your own WoT; rather it depends on who follows the @Silberengel account that increases the score. Yes, you don't follow anyone, but that only means you don't need reciprocity due to your own established credibility. The WoT idea is that "high trust" people (who has *your* "trust" which depends on your own follow list and the trust score of who they follow) are depended upon to only follow high-value identities. If your "friend" is following a bunch spam (evidenced by their reposting of crap accounts), you will hopefully unfollow them due to the low value of their posts. Its this score that gives credibility, but only in the sense that the accounts aren't spammers or imposters. The purpose of this WoT isn't necessarily to know who you *should* follow, but to filter out who you *shouldn't* follow and clutter up your feed.

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Brunswick Brunswick@stacker.news 6 months ago

> I think follows are commie, designed to reduce our freedom, create rampant shadow-banning, force us to make all of our contacts public and easily searchable, and steer us all to be drooling influencer groupies. > > Everything I've seen happen, on Nostr, since I got here, just solidifies that opinion for me. There has not been any counter-evidence. The whole situation has just steadily degraded. I'm not sure you understand the main value most people get out of social media. For most, the purpose *is* to be a "drooling influencer groupie". I would bet @jack and @rabble have made the same observation: Twitter probably started out slow, with a small contingent of tech-junkies who share a common ideology and high intelligence. Once it gained networks momentum it gained attention of more widely recognized names, who invested in the platform by sharing their high-signal opinion. Once their "groupies" learned they were on Twitter, they joined primarily to be able to participate in the conversation. This was the original intent, back in the early 90's, why USA Today put journalists' email addresses at the end of their articles; so their readers would be able to shout back, or boot-lick depending on the context. It was when Twitter became a scientific forum, and a political forum, and a journalist publishing medium, that it exploded with success. I wouldn't poo-poo the underlying nature of social media, or try to pin it on the common ability to publish who you want in your feed.

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