Handing someone an open dime is pretty damn private

yeah - but it’s not so easy that we could transact in them.

Just spitballing here, but Digital privacy is insanely hard, if not impossible. Privacy in physical reality is insanely easy. I feel like the fix has something to do with bitcoin becoming more physical.

Can you and i be in charge of the printer then ? We’ll make gazillions 😂

Maybe we go back to trading MtGox cards IRL, but stamp private keys on them and never move on chain again?

more spitballing : if coinjoins were somehow collectively cheaper than normal txs on a sat/vbyte basis, that would put economic pressure on cies to coinjoin txs and thus normalize the practice for ordinary users.b

Need Bolt12 settled and ubiquitous

I can get into a little bit a spit₿alling ngl

*₿ulling

😏 https://anonymousplanet.org/guide.html

Sounds kinda like the satscard. If we came up with a way to easily and quickly verify authenticity and got rid of the NFC to avoid skimming it could be an option for a cash like system using native bitcoin, getting all the privacy benefits of cash while using a superior savings tech.

And if we can reach this then it’s pointless to bother us further

I think you nailed it

I am imagining you trying to explain this to your kids. “It’s like money . . . but you can hold it in your hands!” I do like where your head’s at but 1. Everything about our lives is trending towards digital. 2. It negates one of bitcoins strengths: that it’s hard to physically capture. Physical bitcoin has a place, but it feels a little bit like a novelty to me. 
Similar to 3D movies. Perfect privacy is impossible, but there are a few simple things a person can that make a huge difference. The key is to cheaply and easily make it expensive to overcome. The tricky part is getting people to care.

I don't know if most Bitcoiners even notice, as they tend to be very digital, but there's been a war against cash bills and coins, as well. This isn't a Bitcoin-specific war, it's a self-custody war. We're not supposed to have money we can save or spend freely, even if it's just a $100 bill.

You can use Bitcoin very privately, you just have to go through the steps. Privacy will always require measures to be taken, it's a cat & mouse game - play it well.

Yes

Sad part is cash is expensive to manage in small business. Not only do staff have no cash handling skills, can barely count and have quit under the "pressure" of getting it right, but management have to be constantly auditing the tills. Paying people to incorrectly count is brutal. Plus you have to have a dedicated float that just loses value to fill tills and break bills. Deposits have to be reconciled. Then there is the security of deposits, bank drops and getting coinage. Total pain in the ass.

I know, especially in America, where there are no sales apprenticeships. I'm used to German sales clerks and waitstaff "counting back change" (and I was taught to do this, as well), but Americans will usually just hand me money, "Here you go." 🙈 This "one neat trick" is arguably the reason why Germany still runs on cash.

Another thing the American clerks typically do is put the money you gave them in the till or the wallet and then take out the return money. 🤦‍♀️ Then nobody can remember how much you gave and it turns into an argument about how much change it should be.

We need CISA so that coinjoining is the most rational thing to do for a user.

I know. I count the change and they've often overpaid me. Sometimes by $20 or something. They don't even check to make sure the bills aren't stuck together. 🥴 I hand the money back and they just look confused.

OWe can refine that idea, (or maybe this is just a gross overcomplification? 😅🤷🏻‍♂️) Take the sats card as an example. But to make it even more private we change hands with them regularly so that no single card can be tracked to an individuals movements. Here is an example transaction: You have several sats cards in your wallet, loaded up like traditional cash notes: some 5's 10's 20's 50's etc... you buy a coffee, instead of scanning the sats card you just hand over a loaded 5 and get a seperate one back with the change scanned in from the PoS. The cards would all change hands so much that not one card could easily be mapped to any individuals movements, when you have a few of these "change cards" you can consolidate them at home or wherever, restock and go again. Any individual would probably only ever need 5-10 sats cards, if they could be made thin and cheap enough I think it's an interesting concept. Or to take it to the next level, have a small device like these pop-up card wallets but intead of many cards there is just one card slot for the sats card and a small screen to program how many sats to load the card each time you need to use it, then you hand over the loaded card and get a blank back. Could this work somehow 🤔 obviously building out the infrastructure would be a huge hurdle

What are good alternatives to whirlpool RIP

Computerised cash modules fix this, and are cheap out of China and widely used by vending machines etc. More small business owners should use them instead of manual cash registers.

I've seen those in Italy. They always hated to touch cash, so that makes sense there.

I've seen grocery store self checkouts that randomly are card-only. Wear the public down with entropy. You can't be sure cash will work, but you know you can always pay with card. I wait for the cash machines.

"...go back to trading MtGox cards IRL..." How is this different from trading gold coins, ear rings or necklaces? Gold has mostly the same properties as bitcoin, with the only real difference being weight and transmission through ether. If you bury gold in a remote location it's almost as inaccessable as encryption. There are no wrong answers in brainstorming and I don't want to slow you down, but this is way off track. The fact that no KYC wallets are getting attacked tells you they are right over the target.

This is a fairly new phenomenom in the USA. It used to be that there was an expectation of service from vendors, and cash was king. If vendors did not live up to expectation word of mouth spread and stores/businesses died. Today people just don't care. They want digital fiat. They don't know how to count or expect anyone to do so becuase 'math is racist' and you don't want to be called racist rite? The level of how bad this is depends on population and location... In most places now there are soo many people lining up to buy stuff from big box and low quality vendors that these vendors can offend 50% of their customers and not loose any sales becuase there is a line of customers out the door anyway.

It is a war against/about individual freedom

Noticed the same here… suddenly some shops only want cards or ApplePay and no cash

If you have KYC Bitcoins - Use tools that are compliant or decentralized.

Sending Bitcoins to them is equally as private - unless you OP return the reason for the purchase 😂

It's a war against the human mind. Notice how everyone mindlessly complies?