BITCOIN POLICY INSTITUTE IS OPERATING THE OPEN SOURCE DEV LEGAL DEFENSE FUND. THEY ARE LEGIT AND DOING GREAT WORK.
YOU CAN DONATE ANON USING BITCOIN IF YOU DO NOT WANT A TAX DEDUCTION: https://p2prights.org
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Gran trabajo 👏
🫡
Gran turismo
Big fan of BPI!! Getting in the game on capital hill. Attack on all fronts!
PLEASE TELL ME WE DONT HAVE TO DOXX OURSELVES TO CONTRIBUTE???!!!!
#FREESAMOURAI
PANIC OVER. ALL BTC FIELDS ARE N/A.
STUPID ENGLISH BRAIN MOMENT, SORRY
#FREESAMOURAI
🤙🏻
Seems they changed that in the last few hours.
I knew I wasn't going mad
I want a tax deduction. Also I want no taxes. Sue me.
🤝
LFG!
I love this, but why are we paying (no offense to anyone who’s might freak out on me) to defend people who clearly knew what they were doing was wrong in many aspects. They assured their customers that they could launder bitcoin for them and even charged more for that job. no one likes the government, but there are certain things that you can’t thumb your nose at and to have everyone pay for your defense if that makes sense.
BITCOIN POLICY INSTITUTE IS OPERATING THE OPEN SOURCE DEV LEGAL DEFENSE FUND. THEY ARE LEGIT AND DOING GREAT WORK.
YOU CAN DONATE ANON USING BITCOIN IF YOU DO NOT WANT A TAX DEDUCTION: https://p2prights.org
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Donated!
I wish we could get them to stop saying "Blockchain technology and cryptocurrency"
I'm glad they're talking about it, but they sound uninformed.
Because they didn't launder money for anyone. They wrote open source code that facilitated privacy on bitcoin, and then loudly speculated that it could be used for money laundering. They might be slimy, but even if they are the precedent that writing code to facilitate private transactions constitutes money laundering is exremely dangerous. The US has a common law system, so precedent becomes law.
🫡
Great work
Btc doesnt need lawyers dont be rarted
When your customer service department, tell someone yes indeed we can clean your Bitcoin for you. That’s not decentralized. That’s not just code especially when you charge more for the transactions. I’m assuming you haven’t read the indictment.
There is an entire list in the indictment of what went through and they knew it
did you see what they did in the netherlands? they threw a guy in jail because the code he wrote and deployed to a decentralized network "could not be stoped" and made him responsible for the criminal actions commited with that code.
that is like someone is drowning a guy in my pond, but now it is my fault for deploying an unstoppable pond. it makes no sense, and has to be fought tooth and nail.
and before you say "yeah but he made a tool that is useful for criminals"...
Everything that is remotely useful is also useful for criminals
That is absolutely not what I am saying or what happened here you need to read the indictment.
No, it is not about the tool made useful for criminals. It is about answering messages and talking to the criminals about what they intend to do for them and what they charge in order to do it that’s different.
Tax? What is that?
I have not read the indictment, nor am I am attorney. I also did not use the product. My understanding was that they wrote a protocol that allowed people to coordinate coin joins without their input or knowledge, and loudly boasted that it could be used for money laundering, and that no one could stop it. That is inconsistent with charging more for money laundering services, or at least independent of it.
If they took custody of customer funds for the explicit purpose of launder them, in exchange for a fee, then I am badly misinformed, and concede your point. At least on that charge, although I still think it is a dangerous precedent if they are also charged and convicted because of the code that the wrote.
your caps lock key is broken
excuse me but fuck no.
acknowledging that customers participate in the black/grey markets doesn't make anyone a criminal.
even those customers.
building a product *that criminals also use* is just building a good product. acknowledging that criminals use it doesn't make building the thing a crime.
also, "premium addons" for high net worth individuals doesn't constitute charging more to launder the proceeds from criminal acts.
the DOJ has a flimsy case. that's why they are prosecuting for conspiracy instead of operating an unlicensed money transmitter.
no unfortunate precedent if they lose.
this is an intimidation tactic.
de facto legislation through lack of clarity and indictment.
EVERYONE who cares about overreach should care about this case. These people are freedom fighters and they deserve the total support of the open source community and the greater citizenry.
they did NOTHING wrong.
pretty sick
Which indictment?
Are you talking about the samourai one?
I think samourais MO was questionable, but so was the indictment.
You should read the judgment from the Netherlands on the tornado cash case.
It will give you a different perspective on what is really at play here
Thank you for the clarification. Donated
Why should we pay for defence lawyers when someone working on freedom tech is targeted by parasites that have murdered more people and laundered more money than we could ever dream of doing in a thousand years?
Because we don't yet have the firepower to exterminate the parasites, and so our only option is to use whatever semblence of a just system there is left.
Maybe it would be good to discuss how people give global financial power to a man without an identity! And call that decentrelize...
✔
But the American government and the government and the Netherlands are two different things. I can’t even begin to compare the true and yes, I’m talking about the Samurai indictment.
I know what’s at play here
Did you read the tornado indictment?
I understand this is a frustrating situation and no, we don’t have control over the government laws but we have to follow them or we don’t and we go to jail. I am not into that idea. Doesn’t mean I like it, but logic should prevail.
Goodness
US Senators can’t make bitcoin part of the U.S. financial system, they can only make laws that prohibit use cases.
The vision of bitcoin is dead in the US.
That again isn’t the point when people messaged them to ask if they could launder it, they replied yes
You cannot basically tell the US government to go fuck itself and that you’re gonna do what you want, especially when it is outside the law it’s not gonna end well and I don’t know who doesn’t know this today
I’m sorry, but they did do some things wrong. There’s a list in the indictment. You know what you just need to read the indictment. I’m so tired of trying to explain this to people until they read the indictment and go. Oh I see.
It’s unfortunate, but it is what they did. I know everybody’s gut reaction is to say they did nothing wrong but if you read it, they knew what they were doing. They skirted the law and it’s just not something anyone’s gonna get away with especially $1 billion worth.
I am personally upset that this is the precident that is going to be used
I agree with having a crowd funded legal defense for samourai, 100%. But I do not agree with leaving those who have a record of failure such as bitcoin policy institute handling the fund.
receipts please.
because that doesnt appear in the indictment.
"You cant just get together and throw a bunch of tea in the harbor to protest unjust taxation. it's not gonna end well."
You can and you should Mel.
I'll take things that dont appear in the Samourai indictment for 300 Alex
Skirting the law is actually not a crime.
Shouldn't even need to be said but here we are.
That’s not squirting the law that’s breaking the law. It’s called intent
It may not be in the Netherlands, but it is here or they wouldn’t be charging them
Please link me to what you’re reading
Page 9
Page 10 is where they explain it in their marketing materials. code does not create marketing materials people do and if your marketing materials say that they include individuals that engage in criminal activities, including restricted markets that’s not legal
Page 11, where the revenue comes from
As I said
acknowledging you have customers that use your product for criminal use-cases
is not a crime.
Using/operating a market over Tor is not a crime, although those markets are commonly used to buy illicit substances.
Those are true free markets.
There is nothing illegal happening on page 9. Obviously the DOJ thinks they can get a conspiracy conviction.
But only because enough people read into it the same way you are.
Promoting that your service does, this is a crime
I’m reading it like it’s the law. I’m not reading it like it shouldn’t be this way but it is. I’m reading it like this is the law. They knew it was the law. I’m not a judge. I guess we’ll find out how they interpret it but if this was just code, that’s one thing but that’s not what this is. You are marketing a service to la money you seriously don’t see that?
Not to mention, they charged extra for gray and dark transactions I mean come on now you’re just being ridiculous if you think this is not illegal , then you should go for it
That’s in their marketing material
Do you understand that code does not have a marketing department or a customer service department to answer emails
According to who is it not a crime? If you have no KYC and you are laundering money for people and your advertising it and you’re putting it in your deck it’s against the law to promote money laundering services
And it’s not about me caring it’s about me being logical and realistic. This is not the case. I want them to set a precedent on and they will, which is gonna make things even worse, so yeah, I’m not happy with what they did here.
What do you mean by that?!
What a great work is being done not bit by bit. Love it. 💕
That isn't in the indictment either.
Its not even possible with the way the platform is structured 🙄
Again,
you are pearl clutching over a jpg or two of what the DOJ (rather dogily) calls "marketing materials"
obviously you are happy to take their word for it and buy their line that these jpgs and their mention of "illicit" and "restricted" markets constitute "marketing their service to launder money" without any further context.
Sad.
yeah yeah
and the Loyalists in the American Revolution were also just being "logical and realistic."
I’m not Pearl clutching over anything I think you’re clutching a bit you’re not even open to the idea that maybe some of this isn’t gonna go over well in court. Will find out if they make a deal. And nothing dodgy about marketing materials that actually express what you do what services you offer and what you charge that is exactly the definition of marketing materials. I own my own business and when I put together things they have a description and a price what I can do for them and I offer. Maybe I’m doing that wrong and I just found out right now thanks to you and the DOJ.
FYI, this is the indictment. It won’t have every bit of the evidence that is against them on it. it’s not a judgment. I’m not sure you understand that I don’t want it to turn out this way but they did nothing to help themselves. Have it turn out a different way and you’re grasping at straws.
They created decks to give to people who wanted to know what they did and what their services were. There’s actual illustrations of it in the indictment dude I’m not arguing with you because I’m realizing now you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about. You’re talking about the Netherlands and the US and these are two different countries with two different laws. Go research some other cases and then come back and tell me that this is a one off that everybody’s out to get them and they didn’t do anything.
Right right because the loyalists of the American Revolution are the ones who brought this out and are going to hear the case and make the judgment. you can say whatever you want about how things are supposed to be but clearly you don’t have a clue what they really are and how things actually work
Nobody knows and we can only argue about what is known.
If this is all the DOJ has got then i think a lot will come down to if/how these jpgs were presented to investors.
If they were just files on someone's computer, their case probably goes nowhere.
if they have more in this vein, it will not go well for Samourai.
But the point is, you're taking THEIR word for it at this time.
I haven't even mentioned the Netherlands once in any of our various threads
so I'm thinking now you have some reading comprehension problems.
maybe its just nostr weirdness.
Then what does this mean why would they break out black and gray transactions on a separate line? Why wouldn’t it just say all transactions are X. it appears they were able to set their own fee structure.. There’s another line there that’s blurred it wasn’t magic it was humans. The second picture is where they explain on Twitter they are non-Ky
Premium add ons?
Yeah, you did and you’re very first post. You told me to read the tornado thing.
That was where I tried to tell you that that government and the US government are not the same
OK, I’m done with you and even your back door. Snarkiness is obnoxious and you don’t know what you’re talking about so maybe instead of fighting me do some research yourself and then you tell me if this is some clean case that they did nothing wrong absolutely zero and should’ve never been charged by the American government. I don’t mean what you feel like they should’ve been charged in your own mind government I mean, actual real courts.
Thank you!💯🔥
Yes, and so will a jury. The point you’re missing is my opinion doesn’t matter neither is yours whether you like it or not they will present their evidence and this is just what they used to get a warrant. They don’t lay out an entire case in an indictment. but again do your research on that and stop fighting with me you’re not making any sense
I don’t want this for them i’m looking at it as if I were a juror in a federal case and how many jurors do you think even understand Bitcoin but they sure know what money laundering is. None of this is good for them whether we like it or not I’m just being realistic. I think it’s possible if it turns out better than I’ll be thrilled and I will be happy to celebrate right now. It doesn’t look good.
They don’t care if I take their word for it or not, and they don’t care if you do either or anyone else we don’t have any control and believe it or not there are laws and things they follow when they prosecute things like this if there’s enough money in it for them or a lesson to be learned, they’re gonna do it. my original point was they could’ve done better and if they had tried harder not to thumb their nose or be so cocky or market there Black and grace transaction services would’ve been way easier to back them up
AFAIK, this is where you are wrong.
They are charging them because they think they can win and set precedent.
That wasn't me Mel.
I repeat. I've never mentioned the Netherlands to you.
Maybe check your own snark.
You're super into reading into this aren't you?
That doesn't say "we charge people who want to wash illegally gained funds more money"
......
not sure that long, unpuctuated run-on paragraph actually makes a point that relates to we were talking about.
yes indeed, they will stretch the law to try and incriminate the people they want to put away.
that why we contribute to their legal defense.
but
I was pointing out that you are taking the DOJs word re "marketing materials" and already imagining a pitch deck to Russian oligarch investors and DNM operators.
which is no doubt exactly the point of them releasing this material without any context.
what I mean is,
they DONT say that in the indictment. that is YOUR imagination.
Dude, your commenting on my run-on sentence. I’m using voice just fuck off. I mean it’s so stupid. You’re so wrapped up in anything but what you’re actually supposed to be talking about let me I’m gonna just ramble on here with no punctuation for a while and I hope this makes your brain feel betterbecause I’m not even gonna bother to talk to someone who is this ridiculous bye
I didn’t take their word for it. They fucking posted it on Twitter and on their website I don’t have to take the DOJ Word for the marketing. you should probably get your pearls out
I showed it to you. It was on their website and it was on their Twitter account countless times. I’m not taking anyone’s word for it you have no idea what you’re saying you haven’t done any of your own research and the only thing you’re focused on is grammar and pearls and other dumb shit so don’t argue with me unless you really can
Amazing and hopefully it's going to be a truly exceptional group to help all with #Freedom and protect all from more #Government oversight that's unnecessary.
#BTC #Zap⚡#Nostr #FreeJulianAssange 🔥🚀