The gaslighting will continue till stock number goes up.
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Lose your seed phrase? Don’t worry bout it… we had access to your wallet both legally and illegally the whole time 😅🤗
peak shitcoin advertising
Metal plate
Being anti seed phrases is beyond retarded. Posing as if you are as a marketing stunt is just evil.
Whats wrong with not having seed phrases? Bitcoin Core didn't even accept BIP39 until recently. Apparently there is some argument that seed phrases are less secure than number/text string
If people are sad about the tradeoffs of BitKey that is one thing, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater
There is nothing wrong. Clock maker is mad Bitkey is hurting their future sales
Okay, „no offense but“
1) you have to have absolutely no clue about how people operate psychologically to assume number/text strings are more secure than seed phrases. Looking at it holistically there is absolutely no evidence for that assumption.
2) the marketing attack on the concept of seed phrases by a billionaires company is not a matter of taste and personal preference. It’s an attack on self-custody.
Bitkey is a shitty product that reduces privacy, security and control over your bitcoin where it was absolutely not necessary from a UX perspective.
Abysmally bad product from a guy who thinks a hundred millionth of something should have the same denominator as the thing itself.
Okay but what about the fact that biometrics aren’t protected in the United States and bitkey will be sold far and wide to Americans. That is extremely problematic and not cool.
Can’t please everyone. Enjoy watching them become the most popular and adopted HWW in the market.
You say this as if it’s bothering me. When the rugpull comes, which it inevitably always does, it will not be me who’s affected. It will be people who bought into the bullshit narrative. It will be people like you. Have fun with your „most popular and adopted HWW“, I guess.
Yeah you totally don’t have an emotional reaction to Bitkey’s latest marketing campaign and their product
I think it is, at least in part, trying to take away part of the autonomy that bitcoiners and libertarians want and replace it with a bureaucratic process. If I understood it correctly, you don't have to trust bitkey for regular transactions, using your two of three parts of the puzzle but in case you need recovery (the only reason to use bitkey) because you lost/broke one of the two *electronic devices* containing your keys, you absolutely have to hope that bitkey didn't mess up or hold your keys hostage. Personally I trust myself way more to keep track of my belongings than some company to whom my entire net worth is an utter joke.
LOL
I call a destructive marketing campaign for an inferior product what it is.
You call that an "emotional response" and this reframing is totally not the kind of stuff disingenuous asshats pull off.
You don’t have to keep proving my point over and over. Once was enough
Correct. 2 of „your“ 3 keys are managed by online devices that bitkey controls. They can easily take your corn hostage. There are so many red flags there. Ffs you even need an email address to use this thing. Unbelievable.
You don’t have a point. That’s exactly the problem.
Again you are making arguments against the BitKey. This discussion was about the absence of seed phrases......not the BitKey.
BitKey makes tradeoffs that some people are ok with
Lol, sorry my response clearly went over your head. I'm not suggesting number/test strings are easier to remember.
I'm saying there is some argument out there that they are technically superior to BIP39 seed words.
I don't think BitcoinQT(this is the literal Bitcoin Core wallet)uses seed words is it shitty and dangerous 🙄
Ledger, Trezor, BitBox02...heck, even Coinbase and Blackrock make tradeoffs SOME people are okay with.
Pointing out why perhaps they shouldn't be is entirely fair game.
People think they can somehow get the benefits of Bitcoin without the responsibility of, you know, handling their Bitcoin. Freedom without responsibility is always a mirage.
I leave plenty of room for redesign of Bitkeys in the future being something that may be usable. But for now it's an unfinished breadbox, not even fit for prototype stage let alone public release as a product.
I agree, but read the initial statement. Stay on topic you mid wits.
We are supposed to be discussing whether seed words are necessary for security or not. They are not...... otherwise why would Core choose not to use Bup38 seed words?
Condemn BitKey for all sorts of reasons. Privacy biometrics etc. But don't try and tear them down on baseless claims that seed words are necessary for security
aka If we block you or disappear and you lose access to your phone, cloud account, or can’t setup an APK (I’m guessing most of their users cannot) then you’re fucked. That feels like it’s kinda of toeing the line of if it’s truly self sovereign self custody or not. I will assume good intent, but this is a bad take.
Not surprisingly, you do not understand the argument at hand, or you are deliberately misrepresenting it.
Also, you don't seem to understand what bitcoin core's role is as a reference implementation, but keep referring to it while we're actually talking about HWWs, which is a whole different thing. LOL
A security model sucks if it's just technically superior. That was the whole point of adding mnemonics as an extra layer of security: to optimize the human factor.
Bitkey is suboptimizing the human factor. Its anti-bitcoin ethos. It's "don't verify, trust" wrapped in a shitty product.
Do you not know what Bitcoin qt is🤣🤣🤣. Seed wordless is fine, BitKey may not be.
Okay, cool.
I'm not going to discuss things where an internet search and 10 seconds of reading time will give you a definitive answer.
People can just look up "bitcoin qt and core" themselves and see that you're full of it. Same goes for "ux perspective on security models".
Have a great life, man
I'll save you the time:
Bitcoin Core (QT) does not use seed words or support BIP39, the most common standard for seed phrases. Instead, it relies on soft copy backups of the wallet file.
I lost you at „holistically“ already, didn’t I?
Yes, I know that. Almost everybody on here probably does.
Hence, mnemonics as an *additional layer* of security. That’s a fancy way of saying it’s a mechanism *on top* of what you just described. Core as reference implementation doesn’t necessarily need to have this. It’s nonetheless essential to bitcoin.
Plus, when I say „psychological“ and „human factor“, I don’t mean memorizing. I mean the separation of ‚access credentials‘ from technological or pen-and-paper solutions to enhance the self-custody experience.
Mnemonics re-naturalize the math that’s going on, freeing users from the need to use tools. That is extremely liberating.
But I guess that’s just not your way of thinking, so any further talk is pointless. As Nietzsche said, words are only “rainbows and illusive bridges between things which are eternally apart”
Bye.
Whether it's seed words or simply an exportable key you can use to back up in a sovereign manner isn't something I much care about.
Not being able to do so in either fashion is the issue. BIP39, Electrum style seed words, just raw privkey, or most any other way to accomplish sovereign restoration would be acceptable.
And sure, people are going to act in ways that don't serve their interests. I'm not opposed to the Bitkey existing; they can just do things.
But the lack of sovereign seed backups is a flaw, and they'd have an objectively better product if they fixed it.
Respectfully, I could not disagree with you more.
It’s not for me, but I have been able to get so many more people on board.
On board to what though?
Can you steel man the other side? What about entry-level people looking to move off exchanges? What about helping others adopt self custodial solutions where the barrier to learning about traditional multisig, good opsec, and utxo management is too high? Can it help Boomers? I think Bitkey-like products are necessary if adoption of the network is to increase. Money is distributed in layers, and so is the spectrum of custody.
This is the wrong kind of adoption. People don’t learn by you obfuscating truth. Getting rid of seed phrases isn’t progress. This is not UX, it’s deception.