Replies (51)
How bad has your mistakes haunted you ser? 😅
Not at all but I think there are enough people who really want the ability to edit/delete that this is at least a useful idea to pontificate upon.
Personally, I kinda like not being able to edit my dumb ass.
Edit and delete definitely has a use case. I kid. 😆
Shit. It's all gud me fren.
I may be wrong here, but the malleability of notes has to be approved by relays to ensure no funny business is going on.
I'll give you an example.
You post a note (url) that says 'like' and 'boost' if you like puppies.
Then a day later you change the word 'puppies' to 'government'.
This may have a reputational effect on anyone that interacted with your note. Use your imagination on more sinister examples.
So a webpage? Lol
This is basically what addressable events gets us, and in a nostr-native way. The objection to edit has two parts:
1. Mutable state creates lots of weird problems. Either you lose history, which allows authors to rug people and build fraudulent social credit, or you keep all the history. Amethyst's edits keep all the history, which allows fiatjaf to spam everyone on Amethyst. Immutability solves all this, at the expense of not having edit.
2. There are lots of editable types on nostr, e.g. blog posts. The usual topic of conversation is whether *kind 1* notes should be editable. My opinion is that the cost/benefit ratio is in favor of having edits for blog posts, but not for kind 1's (since edits are usually light, made very soon after clicking send, or fraudulent). Another way to think about it is that kind 1's generally have so few words that a single edit is much more likely to change the meaning of something that people have already replied to/reacted to/zapped. Whereas people sort of expect blog posts to change under their feet.
The things immutability buys us are largely invisible, but are way more important than what edit gets us. Which is probably part of the reason youtube doesn't let you edit videos, and twitter didn't have edit for a long time.
Well said. And I don't need to screenshot this because it will never change
Well, kinda. I just know there are unforeseen consequences of what I'm proposing but I'd rather people tell me how I'm wrong than be right about something no one ever gets to see or hear.
content addressability ftw
Smarter people than me will probably have better things to add 😂 but one big issue would be that now the contents of that rendered note are not verifiable as authored by your key.
I agree.
When I send a gif URL is it sent as a Kind 1? The reason I ask is when you say 'blog post' that's what I'm thinking of in my mind. I write a few words, it's cast as a static URL in a note (kind 1?) and the user sees the words like they always see. When I edit that blog post the URL in the note is unchanged but it's rendered content has changed.
It's clear that the author could use this as a way to rug people in various ways but wouldn't their WoT start taking hits as people who got rugged unfollow the npub?
What if the publishing client could generate a type of "vanity URL" that included a token you have to buy but that token can only be provably bought by your npub?
I'm about to break my brain because I'm at my very limit of gud thinking.
Images are usually sent as mutable urls, yeah, but
@hzrd149 is fixing this with blossom, which extends the content addressability to files as well.
> wouldn't their WoT start taking hits as people who got rugged unfollow the npub?
Yes, but that's not really a complete disincentive. Maybe they don't care about their wot and they're trolling, maybe their already famous and they get to be deceptive about what they've said publicly (c.f. SBF).
There are other reasons listed in
@fiatjaf's article he linked above, one of which is that edits with history are quite complex, and raise the bar for developers to prototype new clients.
Excellent point.
What if it cost money to edit? Just spitballin' at this point.
Cool suggestion but I kind of like how
@Fabian set it up: post note, give a few second countdown to cancel the note, or just leave it alone and it posts.
Man, this whole issue is way more fascinating than I would have thought.
🤣 I’m enjoying reading the dev responses.
It's deep. I tried to explain it more theoretically here: Referential transparency is a superpower.
This is very good experience indeed.
Coracle and flotilla both have this as well
So am I, Corn. So am I.
Love Coracle, giving Flotilla a try this weekend so I can get my friends group off Discord - or I get new friends.
I think you can delete the note in
@npub1sn0r...jtwsSweet, let me know if you run into any issues, I'm happy to help however I can
Then we're back to the good ol days of, whoever is wealthiest controls the information.
I’m just happy to be included 😂
Look here, lemonhead, how dare I NOT include you?
That'd just be plain rude.
Gah!
"...maybe their already famous and they get to be deceptive about what they've said publicly (c.f. SBF).
People in positions of power say a lot of deceptive things. The ability to rewrite history (aka 1984 sytle) is a wonderful tool for cultivating that power. Look at legacy media.
I want to see nostr other-stuff that starts copying everything these elite say and publish it for the immutable record. It will not take long after to see who are the tyrants, and who are the prophets.
Can you help me get new friends?
Everyone on Nostr better be your friend 😂
Exactly.
Happy to help 💜
String of bachelor parties?
Hang on, let me get my fake mustache
Wants friends.
Invents decentralized social communication protocol.
Profits.
I like it.
But if the URL has an imeta tag, and it has an 'x' field, then editing the content of the note will invalidate that 'x' hash. So you'd have to make sure not to do that.
Do blog posts show in the most popular clients saving the other notes? Nostr can’t be a place for serious writing (as in articles, newsletters, etc) without an edit button.
Blog posts are editable, it's just kind 1's that shouldn't be
Worked through this batch already? 😏
Why not? That guy on Twitter Krueger launched a shitcoin the other day and deleted all the related tweets afterwards. People still remember, call him out and comment with evidence on all his new tweets.
And what happens for example if a youngster posts something that he/she will regret the morning after?
Why does immutability have to be a parameter in a social credit system?
Posts a kind 1: "Like and boost if you look forward to fiat finally dying and Bitcoin taking over as the global medium of exchange."
Waits for a bunch of Bitcoiners to like and boost.
Edits the post: "Like and boost if you look forward to XRP flipping Bitcoin this cycle!"
#rugstr
The more I think about the more I’m in agreement.
We have delete, and despite my initial reservations it works pretty well.
So then why not just make another not to replace that one?
one to replace*
This would probably necessitate that you have to keep your own dedicated hard drive space for the notes or may leverage something like blossom.
@fiatjaf , @hodlbod , @hzrd149 , please tell me how I have either not made myself clear or how I have fundamentally missed a basic tenet of the protocol.
