If you consider yourself an actual cypherpunk, or you truly want to see freedom on the internet, why haven't you asked me for Pubky invite code yet?
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Simply because I'm far too scattered to have been able to pay detailed attention to you, even though I follow you....
So, please point me to the right messages and where to read about Pubky, and perhaps I will ask you?π
I would love to but my ego is in the way.
Embrace your ego and it will learn when to get out of the way.
"Ask me for an invite code to true freedom online"
You sound like government.
We've been posting some short video clips of me explaining various aspects on the Pubky account on X (@getpubky) and we have a blog on Medium, etc etc.
It's truly awesome tech, and even our buggy beta app works better than most (all?) nostr apps.
It's still early, but this is when the fun starts.
Because asking permission for freedom sounds like a paradox.
Yet you ask for permission from every relay and server in Nostr, AND you ask permission from ICANN to reach those relays.
That's just a few of the things Pubky does better.
Didn't you notice Primal & Damus trying to charge fees for their services? That is permission. All servers on earth are permissioned. Do you know why?
OK, thanks.π
will it always stay invite only or will it eventually be open to anybody ?
we do have a problem with "Reply Guy" here on NOSTR but i am not sure how an invite only system can be called "decentralized"
the elites already have freedom. it is the masses who are lacking it.
"Facts! π€ But if freedom's the goal, how we supposed to get there without a map? Whatβs your take on that? #FreedomTalk"
are there any fellow Nazis or Pedos on your network ?
before i joined NOSTR i ran a search for keywords such as "Nigger" "Kike" "Faggot" "Retard" and "TND" ( Total Nigger Death ) and only after making sure that all these were well represented ( they were actually proxied from ActivityPub ) i decided that NOSTR was a right fit for me
it seems to me like you're only inviting fellow Buttcoiner Faggots in which case your platform is worthless ...
I'd like to receive an invite code please
So, I've dipped my toe in the water and I'm struggling with the UI somewhat, but that's okay.
What I need to know now is, please point me to where I can read about why Pubky is better than nostr, how they compare on a point-to-point basis?π€π§
Thank you.
Two biggest things:
1. PKDNS - We use your key as an actual domain name. This ends up giving you total control over your data and identity in ways that Nostr never could. (You can keep your key cold, for example). It also allows the system to scale while staying censorship-resistant. Nostr breaks at scale.
2. SSG - We index everything using a semantic social graph. This allows users to curate the web together, instead of rely on central algorithms.
These are both different forms of "discovery" which Nostr lacks. These two primitives change everything in deep ways, offering something strictly better.
Thank you.
Are these ideas described and explained at greater length on your website or elsewhere?π€
And in particular, how do you bypass ICANN? And can't nostr do the same thing by simply using a key as a name?
No Nostr can't do anything like PKDNS unless they break everything and intentionally switch to this instead of the current key-scheme.
https://medium.com/pubky/public-key-domains-censorship-resistance-explained-33d0333e6123
TY
YES please!
So I found the article that hits this at the level I need to think about it:
it:
https://medium.com/pubky/pubky-the-next-web-3287b35408f1
If you like that one, read The Atomic Economy one next. π
Is it really freedom if one has to be invited?
Thanks, that answered several more questions. I'll have to give this some more thought and experimentation.
How long have you been running with this? And how is the current deployment relative size wise to the present state of nostr?π€
Yes. Would you like to understand why?
The app was launched into beta this summer. The protocol was open-sourced late last year.
I only recently started triggering people on Nostr about it, but we did actually try to share this tech with Nostr devs a long time ago and they dismissed it.
Thanks for a good, responsive conversation.ππ»π
OK, nostr devs and proponents...π€
Counterpoint?
Commentary?
Refutation?
Bring your A game.
I'd like to hear any reactions to what I've just read and heard in the conversation below...π
#asknostr
If you consider yourself an actual cypherpunk, or you truly want to see freedom on the internet, why haven't you asked me for Pubky invite code yet?
View quoted note →
Can you 2-way bridge with nostr?
Yes, I've much to learn
I've read your blog and am interested. Is the Pubkey app the only client. Can anyone write a client and Interact with people on the Pubkey app?
it seems to me like nostr should switch to pkdns for relay names, and that wouldn't be a breaking change
The relays themselves would be more censorship-resistant, but that wouldn't extend to Nostr users.
There are some other small demo projects, but pubky.app and Pubky Ring are the first major apps for the system.
Anyone can make any aspect of it they want. It's all open source and public data.
can I please have a pubkey invite code?
What if the real paradox is not asking for your freedom.
Relays are fungible. Exit cost is zero.
In "Exit and freedom" Szabo writes:
"Large proportions of the population of these countries could easily move out of the country if their local rights were violated," and this mechanism is what makes the Nostr relay model powerful. Trivially exit bad relays.
How easy is it to switch home servers in pubky?
Thanks, I take back my comment. I wasn't aware that the protocol was open sourced.
The main thing holding me back is the community and network that I have built on nostr.
Pubkey seems like an upgrade to nostr, why build it as an incompatible network instead of a few NIPs?
Sure, the main challenge with social graphs is their lack of portability. People call this "network effect" and believe it means that new networks cannot replace large networks...yet over time, they always do seem to get replaced ;)
You keep asking me questions but not learning anything.
Also, stop quoting people, especially if they weren't even talking about Nostr; speak for yourself.
Watch this if you want your answer.
View quoted note β
Yeah, my friends today aren't the same as when I was at school, but I didn't wake up one day and decide not to talk to my friends and make new ones.
βFreedom requires an invitation from me.β
View quoted note β
Fine, Iβll take one
I like that you chose Nostr to say so π
it's also the reason the world has always used a single currency and the next one will be BTC
The world has literally never used a single currency.
Thanks for the video.
Pubky exit: "all you need to do is update that DNS record, and the mainline DHT, and change your provider." (What does "change your provider involve? Copying data?)
Nostr exit: "replace the relay in your relay list with a different one."
Nostr exit can be accomplished in a web client without asking any trusted server to do anything. Relays don't have to be trusted *because* the exit costs are zero.
You're right about relay centralisation concerns. Using the mainline DHT is a good solution. Seems like a useful thing to add to Nostr one day.
I don't understand the value of putting pubkeys in the DNS. Is the problem there that you're worried about authorities censoring/stealing homeserver domain names?
I notice that you can now get an SSL certificate for an IP address through Let's Encrypt. What about using the standard BitTorrent DHT mechanism to link to IPs instead of domain names? That's the whole purpose of non-mutable "announce" calls.
Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions, I appreciate it.
Sorry, but you really do not understand any of this.
Not Nostr, not Pubky, not DNS.
You're mixing them into a soup and guessing about the ingredients.
Were you aware that you can use Nostr without ever interacting with Primal or Damus in any way?
You can even write your own client, if you wish, and use any list of relays among tens of public ones (or run your own).
Centralized DNS is an issue. Some communities are working on that issue (Namecoin, ENS and many others). It's not an issue specific to Nostr.
The only parties that can stop me from using Nostr are the same that can stop me from using pretty much anything else on the Internet: my government (they can arrest me), ICANN and a few other parties.
There is no party whatsoever specific to Nostr that has any power of any sort on me as a Nostr user.
You are describing the entire web, not Nostr alone.
There is nothing in Nostr's design that makes it more resilient than the web, aside from using keys as identities.
The rest is exactly the same.
You put your data on web servers and hope other people can access and share it.
Relays can censor you, DNS can censor you. Apps can censor you.
So, yes, the web is fully open, and if you host everything yourself, you do have more control.
But Nostr didnt provide that, DNS did. And if you need any other computer on the web to help you find or distribute data, you become censorable again.
The problem is that almost all of the parties you mention (clients, relays, media servers) are running at a loss, at least without grant funding in the picture.
A good client takes at least one dev to maintain, and that's one dev's fair compensation, with some clients running full teams and a hefty amount of in-house infra on top.
Many relays are running at a pure loss, when you look at infra costs, as well as spam and CSAM mitigation etc. If you add at the cost of incorporation and licensing, which are being almost completely ignored by multiple parts of the system, this only adds to the list.
So in the end what can end up being the censor is simple economic reality. If grant funding stops tomorrow then economics steps in and says "you play by my rules now".
ActivityPub is different because it can actually run on its own financial steam. BitTorrent as well, it has the financials worked out. But Nostr is still at very high risk of being censored by nothing more than the need for humans to pay rent every month.
No one relay can censor me. There isn't any central party, there isn't any special relay.
Client developers and relay operators are just random asses with a computer. Anyone can use as many relays as they like and whatever app lets them read what they want to (or develop their own).
This is in contrast with mainstream social media. If I go on Twitter and write "cisgender", Elon Musk can shadowban me. If I get on Nostr and say something any specific person you can name doesn't like, none of them, individually, can censor me.
Of course if the whole world agrees to censor me I will be censored.
Using Nostr doesn't make you depend on any specific computer owned by someone else, except those which we'd be using regardless of Nostr (DNS servers, ISPs and so on).
Fiatjaf cannot censor me as his own individual choice. The operator of any specific relay cannot censor me, because I don't depend on any specific relay and no relay plays a central role.
ActivityPub is not censorship resistant, nor meant to. If your account is registered to an instance and that instance censors you your account is fucked.
You ignored everything I said and replied with a bunch of noise.
Just read it again if you want a reply:
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Sure but Im not talking about resistance to being shut down by an instance admin . Im talking about resistance to being shut down by pure economic reality. In that department at least AP is far ahead of Nostr
You seem to be busy asking ICANN for permission to get those IP addresses of yours, while completely not realizing ccTLDs exist...
Primal and Damus are charging fees for their services just like Synonym will start charging people money to host their own homeserver or get extra premium hosting or some crap.
At Nostr.land I charge a fee to host content. Like it? Pay for it. Don't like it? Self host your own, no one forces you to use a paid service
No worries. Best of luck with your protocol.
Send it
Im in. But to warn you I am a normie who hates systematic control and manipulations. Send that key if you need people like me there. Thats my intro. ππ live long and prosper.