Pretty good privacy flow that covers *most* average Bitcoin use cases 👇
BUY 🤖 - For use when you want to obtain sats that are not tied to your personal identity #noKYConly
➡️ Robosats Trade > Use proxy invoice when withdrawing to own your node > Accumulate/spend from own node.
SPEND 🪙 - For use when you want to use Bitcoin as money
➡️ Not too much to say here, LN has good base level sender privacy when using your own node.
STORE 🧊 - For use when your node balance gets close to channel capacity, or to a value that you want to move to cold storage
➡️ Carry out atomic swap on something like
Boltz | Non-Custodial Bitcoin Bridge
Boltz | Non-Custodial Bitcoin Bridge
Swap between different Bitcoin layers while staying in full control. Fast and non-custodial Lightning / Bitcoin / Liquid / Rootstock swaps.
(use the .onion address) to go from your Lightning channel balance, straight to an address controlled by your hardware wallet. Boltz has a 0.5% service fee, plus you'll of course need to pay miner fees, which are negligible at the time of writing.
NOTES 📔
🟧 Your purchase sizes are limited by your inbound liquidity. Plan ahead!
🟧 If you don't want to or can't run a node, swap out that step for a
@ZEUS Olympus channel with a lightweight node on your phone. I recommend Zeus because spends from there are more private than in Phoenix due to client side path finding
🟧 When using the proxy invoice feature in Robosats, you may need to adjust routing fee and proxy provider allowances slightly
Happy to take questions or comments. Put down the CashApp and give it a go anon, I dare you!
Replies (43)
Listen to this 👇
QnA
Pretty good privacy flow that covers *most* average Bitcoin use cases 👇
BUY 🤖 - For use when you want to obtain sats that are not tied to your personal identity #noKYConly
➡️ Robosats Trade > Use proxy invoice when withdrawing to own your node > Accumulate/spend from own node.
SPEND 🪙 - For use when you want to use Bitcoin as money
➡️ Not too much to say here, LN has good base level sender privacy when using your own node.
STORE 🧊 - For use when your node balance gets close to channel capacity, or to a value that you want to move to cold storage
➡️ Carry out atomic swap on something like
Boltz | Non-Custodial Bitcoin Bridge
Boltz | Non-Custodial Bitcoin Bridge
Swap between different Bitcoin layers while staying in full control. Fast and non-custodial Lightning / Bitcoin / Liquid / Rootstock swaps.
(use the .onion address) to go from your Lightning channel balance, straight to an address controlled by your hardware wallet. Boltz has a 0.5% service fee, plus you'll of course need to pay miner fees, which are negligible at the time of writing.
NOTES 📔
🟧 Your purchase sizes are limited by your inbound liquidity. Plan ahead!
🟧 If you don't want to or can't run a node, swap out that step for a
@ZEUS Olympus channel with a lightweight node on your phone. I recommend Zeus because spends from there are more private than in Phoenix due to client side path finding
🟧 When using the proxy invoice feature in Robosats, you may need to adjust routing fee and proxy provider allowances slightly
Happy to take questions or comments. Put down the CashApp and give it a go anon, I dare you!
So many robosat offers are Strike pay only which worries me because if the seller is receiving the fiat payment to strike and then also sending the sats from their strike balance (which makes selling extremely convenient) those payments can be fairly easily correlated
Fair concern. Easily avoided by choosing other payment options.
How do you use/create a proxy invoice? Is this a feature in f.e. in Zeus?
Robosats has it under an advanced toggle when you're asked for the final invoice. You can also wrap in any invoice you like outside of Robosats with lnproxy.org
Zeus uses them by default if you're using an Olympus channel I believe
Having used robosats with withdrawals to own node in the past without proxy invoices, would it be advisable to nuke the node and start again or just start using proxy invoices from now on?
Just so you know lnproxy is like vpn it knows your txn do you trust lnpRoxy server?
For maximum privacy, yes. Just make sure you fund the new node with different UTXOs than the ones left over from the existing one.
why receive as a lightning payment when you can receive onchain directly from robosat trade and no need to use boltz atomic swap. Depends on coordinator fees sometimes cheaper than boltz charge
Kind of yeah, the proxy server knows the final destination of the payment (your node), but in this context, you're trying to separate that info from the the seller + robosats coordinator, which is does just fine.
If your immediate goal is to get a UTXO for longer term storage then sure. The reason I say LN first is because of the default level sender privacy.
What are the trade offs of using lnproxy.org? Seems like there is a trust/cost relationship with whoever is running this service.
Just saw this previous response. Makes sense.
Thanks
And it allows you to accumulate a larger balance off chain, before converting into a UTXO.
UTXOs <1m may well become economically unviable in the future
Utxos <1m may also be combined when forming a txn and one can combine dust outputs together if they all belong to one entity if possible.
Why so much myth about” will be economically unviable”.
Just like I can combine a penny with a dime or a quarter and then add that sum and spend it. I can do the same with utxo and burn some of that dust on miner fees. Or use that utxo dust as a Payjoin when receiving.
Its not a myth. Small utxos become economically useless in high fee environments. Of course you can combine them, but doing so may cost more in fees than the value of the coins themselves.
Sure, but when I combine or consolidate I will use/ burn those dust utxos into fees instead, sure it cost more but it’s spendable. goal is to get rid of the dust as part of miner fees. I still don’t buy this bullshit that one need to have 1mil size utxo or bigger now as a minimum total bullshit.
It's not really 'spendable' though is it? You're losing more than the value of the coin itself. That's the entire point.
Even if you combine them, you might end up paying more for adding another utxo to the transaction than what that particular utxo is worth.
In meat space it's not more expensive to add 10 $1 bills together than spending 1 $10 dollar bill.
But in bitcoin land adding a new utxo increases the size of the transaction therefore increasing the total fees for that transaction. There will be a fee level at which certain utxos will be more expensive to send even if added to a transaction with more utxos
@Cerebrum zapped ⚡️10,000 sats
"Coffie on me ☕"
View quoted note →
FWIW You’re making an argument against yourself
Does Phoenix use wrapped invoices like Zeus or can your counterparty see your pubkey / utxo in the channel?
They do not
Have you tried this yet Anon?
QnA
Pretty good privacy flow that covers *most* average Bitcoin use cases 👇
BUY 🤖 - For use when you want to obtain sats that are not tied to your personal identity #noKYConly
➡️ Robosats Trade > Use proxy invoice when withdrawing to own your node > Accumulate/spend from own node.
SPEND 🪙 - For use when you want to use Bitcoin as money
➡️ Not too much to say here, LN has good base level sender privacy when using your own node.
STORE 🧊 - For use when your node balance gets close to channel capacity, or to a value that you want to move to cold storage
➡️ Carry out atomic swap on something like
Boltz | Non-Custodial Bitcoin Bridge
Boltz | Non-Custodial Bitcoin Bridge
Swap between different Bitcoin layers while staying in full control. Fast and non-custodial Lightning / Bitcoin / Liquid / Rootstock swaps.
(use the .onion address) to go from your Lightning channel balance, straight to an address controlled by your hardware wallet. Boltz has a 0.5% service fee, plus you'll of course need to pay miner fees, which are negligible at the time of writing.
NOTES 📔
🟧 Your purchase sizes are limited by your inbound liquidity. Plan ahead!
🟧 If you don't want to or can't run a node, swap out that step for a
@ZEUS Olympus channel with a lightweight node on your phone. I recommend Zeus because spends from there are more private than in Phoenix due to client side path finding
🟧 When using the proxy invoice feature in Robosats, you may need to adjust routing fee and proxy provider allowances slightly
Happy to take questions or comments. Put down the CashApp and give it a go anon, I dare you!
What is the privacy implication of this?
🔥
👍
How do I create a proxy invoice?
Is robosats considered a dnm?
Fuck yeah for
@ZEUSLOL no, despite what the talking heads on twitter will try and have you believe.
Advanced drop-down menu when you're asked to provide the final invoice to complete the trade
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Thank you!
No mention of Monero endangers your friends and fellow Bitcoiners.
It's insightful but bad advice as you are not covering the whole spectrum.
Are you going to elaborate or just tell me I'm wrong?
Bisq is also good. Maybe a steeper learning curve.
Likely not an option for the majority of your audience, but in #Vietnam it's still pretty simple to buy Sats without KYC procedures.
We do operate a Cash Office in Saigon as well as several Bitcoin ATM outlets across the area :-)
Possibly useful if on vacation and looking to grow the unregistered BTC stack :-)
2) Cashing out BTC (Lightning, On-chain, Liquid) to either cash (currently 5 cities supported) or bank wire (any valid Vietnamese bank account) is also supported.
Which allows visitors to live in Vietnam pretty easily without the need for a bank account :-)
Using Cashapp as a payment method is great since you can use an anon cashtag (Note: You can only change this a few times, so it’s not something you want to change every time, but that doesn’t matter since you def want to use a new robot token each time in Robosats)
In don’t even know where to start with Robosats. Only ever accumulated on chain.
⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡🎉🎉🎉
