Thread - Nostr Hypermedia

2Pac 2PacStackur@sovrnbitcoiner.com 11 months ago

Well said. Monero is a tool. Use it if you need it and understand the trade offs. I didn’t really understand this until I really started to try to use bitcoin privately and it is cumbersome.

Aeneas 11 months ago

This is the hard truth that Bitcoin Maxis avoid! And the conclusion is, either these maximalists belong to the system and want to convince people to use a weak system that is easy to monitor, or they belong to the group that just wants to get rich without doing anything and only cares about NGU (Number Go Up), or they are just plain stupid and have blinders on and cannot see the obvious. #bitcoin #Monero #nostr

Papa Figos

Actually you can, yes, and people have. I know of several examples in my circles. And they're all bitcoiners too.. yet Monero is the tool they use. And no, it's not because they don't want to spend the BTC .. they sold BTC for XMR on a DEX for the purpose, in other words, using the tools we have available as they're intended. They all chose #monero for the same reasons I would have: - No way this tx would work on Lightning (amount too high) in most conditions - They don't want the seller to identify portions of their transparent BTC stash But even if they couldn't use XMR, because hypothetically it's heavily criminalized (in most parts of the world, if you don't know, paying cash for a house is totally normal, so paying XMR for a house wouldn't be strange), what, you would take that as victory? Makes no sense. It's really simple and for a guy who goes by the handle "Cypherpunk", you should get it! Cypherphunks build and use anonymous systems, because otherwise and inevitably, those systems become tools for mass-surveillance and not tools for liberation. Look, it's really simple: Is Bitcoin private? No, you can always see the amounts, source and destination. Is Bitcoin anonymous? No, it's pseudonymous, and weakly so, the more you use it the more you dig your own grave, and the evidence is eternally available for perusal by literally anyone at any time from now til the end of time. On the other hand .... Is Monero private? Yes. Is Monero anonymous? Yes. So Monero is the cypherpunk dream money. That's just how it is. It's super intelectually dishonest to not acknowledge this in my opinion. This is why we say Bitcoin is like a cult sometimes. The truth can be staring you in the face, but the heavy fog of dogma won't let you see it. They're both tools, Bitcoin is not good for everything, and neither is Monero, because there are no solutions, only tradeoffs. See past the dogma please, you're a smart guy. It's obvious, Monero is the best tool for financial privacy at the moment, just as Bitcoin is the best tool for maintaining & increasing purchasing power over the medium and long-term. I'll end with this. Most Monero people I know would agree that if Bitcoin did everything Monero can, there would be no need for Monero. If it was the other way around, would you have the same attitude? The answer determines whether you see these technologies as tools to be used, or religions to be followed. We see tools. There is no cognitive dissonance. Maxis see religion, dogma, holy books and priests. It's all or nothing, black or white, and anyone who says otherwise is an heretic. Sounds familiar? Cordially, Papa Figos

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sword in the stone swordinthestone@nostrplebs.com 11 months ago

I totally agree, and I know it's frustrating when you feel like most people don't understand / don't want to understand. But on the bright side, I think you'll find that most people are just pragmatic and will use whatever the best tool is that's put in front of them. So I do think most people would use Monero for day to day transactions that they want to be private, and it's short term enough that they're not worried about losing purchasing power in the meantime. I don't agree with your house example though, because really there's no way to 'own' a house anonymously, so there's sort of no point in buying it anonymously either. Surely? Also about using Bitcoin privately, I think coin joining and mixing etc are becoming easier all the time. And I think if there's a push for that sort of thing (or other privacy preserving techniques) to just become the norm in wallets then it will all be mixed together enough to stop really mattering anyway. Unless you're trying to preserve anonymity for a very specific opsec reason, but that's different.

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brito brito@nostr.pt 11 months ago

Oh, but there are multiple ways to legally buy houses anonymously enough. Setup a company at some tropical island and make it the house owner. Good luck trying to uncover the owners for an offshore company. Or, use a surrogate person that will own properties on your behalf. You'd be suprised how many homeless people are owners of properties on their name without even imagining. If that's too risky, then do a contract with a reputable law firm and have them own the property on your behalf as trust fund holders. Plenty of methods suited to all tastes and budgets. But I really see just about zero people using coin joining or any other convoluted method in the real world. They'll just wire monero to cut costs with commissions or risk of losing their money at some shady place.

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