GM!

GM & agree

GM🫂💜🤙PV🌞🧡🙂

GM How can one have better receiving privacy, besides BOLT12?

For right now, transactions where the person knows you IRL, use something like phoenix. For nym, just use your own node. Blinded paths +BOLT12 are great but right now are only really working with the eclair implementation (Phoenix). For privacy to the wider network, strategically use private (unannounced) channels directly with those you do commerce with regularly.

explain to me how to evaluate as an end user, what my privacy guarantees are in any given LN tx? I'll wait.

no. its not.

No identities are tied to nodes. Receivers have no idea where the origin is. Unannounced channels allow sub networks of privacy. I have been FUD busting lightning for 5 years.

We're not (only) concerned with the node runners we're concerned with channels. And it is certainly not impossible to figure out what utxo funds the channel. And the vast majority of utxos are tied to KYC info. As far as Unannounced channels providing privacy goes there's a new method for probing nodes announced every couple of months. if you're not aware of them then you're a really bad fudbuster. This one isn't even the latest https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-031-18283-9_16 The simple fact is that let Ln is a beta network that has not been battle tested and you have no idea what privacy concerns you're really getting or if the ones you have now will last the next 6 mos. NOT a privacy layer.

That doesn't doxx anything except for how much nodes can receive and who they MIGHT have channels with. That doesn't 1. stop transactions 2. prove who sent what to who 3. prove who received what from who 4. prove ownership over any node

exeept all that is visible to the routing nodes. keep up on your research bro

Lightning Privacy Research

Routing Analysis | Lightning Privacy Research

An analysis into the privacy aspects of the routing layer on lightning.

do you know that payments are onion based

read the fucking article

yeah my argue is that the data that could be derived is all peobabalystic nonsense. and even if you could there's NO PRIVATE IRL DATA LEAKED

There is no way to evaluate as an end user what path your payment might take or what data might be leaking And if most payments are passing through a few centralized nodes it stops being probabilistic analysis *extremely quickly Saying "Ln is a privacy layer" is an aspirational statement and not based on fact cope.

I hate to break it to you but there's no better way to move bitcoin non custodial if you value privacy than lightning. IF there is a better way, please let me know.

Unfortunately I'm afraid you are correct I just wish bitcoiners would start expecting more and not try and sell half-baked solutions as privacy layers

I fully expect blinded paths and BOLT12 to be the lightning standard across all implementations this year. This will vastly improve receive privacy over BOLT11. Phoenix already does this. As for on chain footprints, taproot is already proving to be great at obfuscating on chain events. And as for using probes and pinning to attempt to see how much liquidity are in channels, I think that may always exist HOWEVER that is not a big deal in my opinion. Lastly, there are hundreds of well connected routing nodes on the network, so big nodes don't seem scary to me. Further, you can always choose to avoid nodes when you make a payment if you want to. I will leave it there.

yeah and when all that is implemented, debugged, stress tested etc for a few years maybe it'll be worthy of being called a "privacy layer" but we've been hearing that LN is going to solve the privacy problem for years already and it doesn't yet. so knock it off with the Coming Soon™ shit

it solves it if you use it to solve it