I was forced for many years to use Monero in daily business when I would have much rather been using Bitcoin because is has not been fungible for me, and its lack thereof has interfered in my business and life. There were many opportunities for Bitcoiners to demand Core actually address the issues that prevent the daily use of Bitcoin as money by those of us that don’t have bank accounts. They have repeatedly rejected this to instead pretend some shithole village in Latin America has adopted daily use of the Lightning Network. They, of course, have not, they simply pretended to do so for long enough that they can get free handouts of Bitcoin from drooling libertarians which they have since sold. All so that the startup grifters who pay their crypto influencer tard wranglers can convince gullible venture capitalists that a handful of retarded third worlders in favelas doing a couple custodial LN transactions is a bullish sign for Bitcoin.
Meanwhile, the chart tells the real story. Bitcoin is losing steam as a speculative asset. This is potentially the final cycle. The last chance for Bitcoiners to transmute the massive influx of institutional capital we saw from 2021-2025 into a product that actually has real utility and serves the needs of people who want to use blockchains as their main financial ledger. The last bull run was the most pathetic cycle yet, 69k to 126k top to top.
There’s been zero consideration among Bitcoiners that faith in Bitcoin’s “inevitability” has been poisonous to actual adoption, and that Bitcoin is potentially poised to permanently settle at a major loss when the lack of an additional significant ATH refutes the power log scale delusion. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
Some people at the top of Bitcoin do realize that the foundational market opportunities that were missed represent existential threats to the future of Bitcoin, which is why so much accommodation was given to NFTs via Ordinals (to a complete failure, ord.io just shut down last month) and now Citrea, which is bringing EVM compatibility to Bitcoin. The problem is that these are settled markets with winners already chosen. Bitcoin is not going to be a clearinghouse for NFTs or smart contracts. Other chains that decided to implement useful features in a timely manner already won those games, and Ord’s failure shows that Bitcoin’s historical significance is not enough to attract participants when you show up many years too late.
Bitcoin has to be money, not only because it was the original vision of Satoshi, but because Bitcoiners have rejected the opportunity for the blockchain to be used for any other application in a timely manner. Every real world use of blockchain has gone to other chains, because idiotic Bitcoiners turned their nose up and sneered about “monkey jpegs” as other blockchains were garnering actual users and creating sustainably valuable fee economies. Just as it was too late for Ordinals to succeed in a settled NFT market, Citrea’s attempt to create an EVM contract market via Bitcoin is not realistic after so many entrenched alternatives.
Every business I have seen that uses Monero and Bitcoin always sees more Monero usage. People actually want to use Monero as currency. Fungibility is the primary concern of people who actually use blockchains for their daily finances. I don’t have a bank account, and I can tell you that it is my primary concern. I am using Monero because it is fungible, and I am not using Bitcoin because it makes it impossible to run a stable business. People that tell you Bitcoin is better as money aren’t even capable of being qualified to make this statement, because they always still have bank and investment accounts. They are still on the grid of the legacy financial system. Bitcoin has been relegated to something I simply hold, and I increasingly ask myself why I would continue holding it over something that I actually find useful. Other people much less ideologically aligned with Satoshi’s vision than me out there must be asking themselves the same thing.
Bitcoiners have a final opportunity to make a push to become money, but they have to abandon chasing markets they have already lost. There is only one way to save Bitcoin, and that’s for Core to create a fungible currency using Monero’s model of Full Chain Membership Proofs. I truly love Bitcoin, and I wish I could be using it on a day to day basis. But Core has consistently rejected the implementation of any feature that could make Bitcoin useful as money in a timely manner, while there is still money to be made and viable businesses to be integrated with Bitcoin. They have historically rejected any opportunity to salvage this situation.
I believe we approach the last window for Bitcoin to become money, instead of a historical marvel in the development of blockchains. Grifting off the history of Nakamato consensus for so long while trying to shove “solutions” that the market has repeatedly rejected down people’s throats has not worked. It’s time for Bitcoiners to stop scamming venture capitalists and implement what the market actually has demonstrated it wants in a currency.
Replies (28)
Many such bad takes. Bitcoin will continue to be the best money.
Spot on. I don't think the solution is to fox bitcoin to make it private. One of the biggest features is the auditability. I think the solution is the L2s which increase privacy and scalability + interoperability with monero. I think the atomic swapping with XMR of being a much more killer tool because then it can essentially be treated as an L2 and used as a tool where 100% privacy is essential. I think these two projects need to recognize they're brothers in arms and walk forward as such.
Monero supply is 100% auditable with rangeproofs, which Bitcoin could adopt. It is only ZCash, a shitcoin controlled by a single Mossad tranny, that has had present-day inflation bugs and has no means to verify supply
An attempt to make a currency that is not fungible is an abject failure. Why atomic swap to Monero for use as a fungible currency? That only makes your Bitcoin not fungible. Why go back to Bitcoin at that point? “Store of value”? Why not store value in Monero instead?
What are your thoughts on the 51% demonstrated attack on the XMR?
^ this nigga believes zigger press releases and never looked at the actual hash rate of the pools
People want to use XMR for fungibility, and they are willing to weather large confirmation numbers to do so. This shows you how desirable it is. It doesn’t matter if XMR were constantly getting deep block reorganizations, the inherent desirability of currency fungibility makes it superior as a currency and makes everyone simply adjust the number of confirmation times. This should have demonstrated to Bitcoin the urgent need for fungibility as a currency. This shows that people are willing to put up with a lot of problems to be able to use a fungible currency. If Bitcoin does not adopt fungibility on Monero’s model, it will continue to be a ghost town with no significant usage as currency.
The perceived scarcity fostered by Monero’s unique mechanics ultimately hinders its potential for broader adoption – a predictable outcome considering its limited utility as a store of value without readily accessible banking integrations.
Let me put it this way: I have now used Monero for payments for more days than I have used Bitcoin. Number of times I have lost money because of a 51% attack on Monero: 0
Number of times in days past, when I used Bitcoin, where I or my partners lost money because a lack of Bitcoin fungibility? It’s in the thousands.
Bitcoin does have hashrate going for it, but that doesn’t make it a usable currency. It needs to be fungible to be adopted as a currency.
Someone burning millions of dollars of compute to “51% attack” Monero for a block reorg that is less than the accepted safe standard of confirmations is a fringe risk (I see zero evidence anyone actually lost money in this 51% attack). An ever-present, everyday risk is your clients and business partners getting their exchange accounts killed because of some opinionated person with access to the AML controls doesn’t like what they see on blockchain, or even arrested because a government employee saw it, or also extremely commonly: robbed at gunpoint for your Bitcoin by thieves. These are much more common problems that have been experienced by hundreds of thousands of Bitcoin users collectively because of its lack of fungibility and privacy.
Bitcoin is already money. You like it or not it develops as free market money. You should know that legislations have no effect on the real use of Bitcoin and since you don't use banks it should make no difference to you. You sound disappointed the actual implementation you want for Bitcoin happens somewhere else in the world and not next to you. It is a privilege being able to do "daily business" and not having a bank account, you sound so confused for someone who is able to do that. If you already don't use banks you won. Bitcoin teaches you patience. I recommend you finding circles where Bitcoin is used daily and not other altcoins (there is a bunch of those in Latin America).
most of the rest of the world still uses banks, so if you want to do commerce with them they are going to need a place to change their national currency into bitcoin. You pretending not to see this doesn’t change the reality. Monero means money. Bitcoin is not money at all, not until it is private and fungible.
I use bitcoin as money everyday. Removing the ability of node runners to do low computational verification of the chain is bad for decentralization. Removing the ability to audit the supply is a non starter.
Monero supply is 100% auditable via rangeproofs. This is a myth. You are thinking of ZCash, which has no way to audit the orchard and has had recent, present-day inflation bugs. Regardless of whether you have had success using Bitcoin, there are plenty of people that have done so that have ended up arrested, imprisoned, robbed at gunpoint, tortured, or had their access to financial services cut off for doing so. With the multitude of articles covering all of these things, “these bad things have never happened to me!” is not an argument. It is willful negligence. They’ve happened to hundreds of thousands of people at this point, collectively.
How do you mined monero?
yes i brother , i see ur signal is #pure , stay blessed
I personally use xmrig with the supportxmr pool
Why not p2p pool via Gupax. It does not take more than 5 minutes to set up.
Gupax/p2pool doesn’t give merge mined chain rewards, like Tari. In fact, the p2pool operator has been submitting your proof of work to Tari for himself and selling it as an operator fee since day 1. That’s his prerogative, p2pool is an excellent service. But I want merge mining rewards, and expect my pool to give them to me.
Metadata matters the most:
Sugestor Ultra
https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndil/media/1450651/dl?inline
Read it carefully. It turns out, the ANONYMIZED TELEMETRY became a weapon.
The telemetry which they claimed is completely harmless and fully anonymized.
Microsoft provided GDID data and a lot of information from windows telemetry to authorities. Google also leaked metadata.
And that's why "trust me bro" model which goole, apple and microsoft present, never works.
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fully agree.
sadly.
They won't get it because their only goal is "money goes up".
It is free ticket to a supposed "richedom" which in end is nothing more than a carrot on a stick meant to lure them.
The people who use monero know why they use it. Many others use monero even without knowing it is monero, it simply works.
Oh, I did not know that. There was a second fork called Gupaxx. Maybe they include Tarin mining.
I've definitely used XMR more often than BTC. I'd love to see some kind of broader Monero marketplace for the sorts of things our people are after.
One thing I'd particularly like is some kind of system where our older, better-off faction of guys can put bounties on sorts of IRL activism/action as a risk-free way of doing something in the real world while helping out our younger lads. For example, a standing bounty of $500 a month in XMR to run postering campaigns that make the news, or stage funny pranks that embarrass the powers that be. Imagine the fun of a few monthly competitions for the best use of a deepfake, or the funniest costume left sitting on a Floyd statue for the media to find.
@Andrew Anglin wrote that our two largest demos are "vets and programmers", and that's been right on in my experience. We need some way for our well-to-do codefags and our highly-agentic vets to stop being so isolated from each other, such that each group's resources can be readily passed to the other in pursuit of mutually-desired goals.
This isn't a novelstr
This is nostr
Say it in a haiku
Sooo it’s Bitcoin and Cores fault for being a free market and not following what you *think* it should be doing?
It sounds like you’re calling Bitcoin dead…I’m no OG but I’ve heard that a 1000x and yet every time I look at (insert 💩 coin) vs Bitcoin over 5 years I only see NGD.
Your charts are pretty compelling if I wasn’t so sure the $ will print more and I’m confident that Bitcoin will never go beyond 21m. You can keep the monkey jpegs on the “blockchain”. You’re missing the point if you think THAT is the revolutionary technology.
Study the history of money.
It's not simply what I think it should be doing, it’s what Satoshi himself thought should be done. In a discussion on hiding ledger transaction histories, he said “If a solution was found, a much better, easier, more convenient implementation of Bitcoin would be possible.”
Not a suggestion
Not a suggestion
Later on in the thread, he describes the potential scheme, which is a nascent implementation of ring signatures.
Monero has become that better, easier, more convenient implementation of Bitcoin.
> I’m no OG
I’m not either, I only got in at sub-$10 prices. But I have been in Bitcoin longer than many.
I’ve read the book of Satoshi. Why don’t we just ask them for clarification? Why the would one of the richest people in the world just disappear and not spend a single Sat?
People will stop HODLing when they are ready to spend.
"Fungibility is a real hurdle for Bitcoin’s use as daily money, but regulatory and institutional adoption is pulling it in a different direction—for better or worse. I was just reading about how ETF flows are now a bigger price driver than on-chain utility, which shows where incentives are aligning.
https://theboard.world/articles/bitcoin-etf-flows-price-dynamics-2026"
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