KYC can be as risky as not having self-custody (custodial wallet, cashu, Fedi, liquid, etc)
If they know how much you own and want some of it, they can use all the state power against you, the same way they do it with taxes today.
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Hi sorry to bother you guys!! We just needed a little boost for our Geyser. it’s for my son 🙏🏻 thanks som!! Have a blessed day.
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In some cases where the state is very aggressive KYC Bitcoin is definitely as bad as custodial Bitcoin.
The only caveat would be that KYC-free custodial Bitcoin doesn't really exist (if you think it does then I have a Bridge to sell you), so it is a bit of a false dichotomy. So Custodial is the worst of all worlds since it is KYC'd by default too.
what do you mean KYC-free custodial doesn't exist?
- wallet of Satoshi
- blink
- primal
- cashu
- Fedimint
- Liquid Network
- RSK
All solutions that custody funds without KYC.
What confuses me is say you want to make a big sale of Bitcoin in the future to sell a small percentage of your stack for something that will directly benefit you in real life (car, house, etc.) Then how would the Bitcoin be utilized? If it’s non KYC that’s great, but where’s the utility in it if you’re just gonna get questioned by whatever jurisdiction you find yourself in? I have not been able to figure this out.
either you are in the matrix or you don't.
The plan is to get people out, not getting us in again.
our job as bitcoiners is to get as many people we can, so we have a relevant market to be on our side and can ignore the KYCed ones.
Move.
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I agree with you in general, but it doesn’t seem the most practical way to me. Whether we like it or not, we are still governed by laws we do not choose. We are all subject to them and will face punishment if we do not abide unfortunately
ecash mints don't know how much you own tho
if I handed you a bar of gold (or you happen to find it in your backyard) would you be concerned about being questioned upon spending it?
none of the other do.
the examples are third-party custody without KYC
that's what privacy is for.
everybody has their own level of accepted risk.
you can always vote with our feet and switch to other country if they turn into a totalitarian state.
My point with all of this is that I don’t think my thoughts are necessarily relevant. I think I WOULD be questioned. Banks question everything, even cash deposits over a certain amount that in the bigger picture really aren’t even big amounts at all.
Fair. We need to keep this going to the point where places accept direct payment in Bitcoin for these large purchases. Vote with our feet indeed. Level up your skills, utilize remote work, seek out visas and permanent residencies
Primal is KYC
I think you are comparing apples with pears. I am not a KYC fan but owning your money is obviously more important than hiding the government the fact that you own it.
Don’t get me wrong, I believe private property and privacy are both fundamental human rights. And we should work on having tools to protect those rights and make them accessible.
The government can create any fucking regulation it wants but you are still in control of your money. They cannot freeze it, inflate it, or take it by force from you.
Worse thing I can think of is capital gains, but I believe that’s theft. And that doesn’t mean that they’ll confiscate your bitcoin. That will just create a fiat denominated obligation with the government once you sell (if you tell them). Owing money to the government is not a crime. I don’t think this is the end of the world. Not ideal but it’s part of the game.
What’s an other posible scenario you can see playing out?
The end goal is not to lose your Bitcoin, self-custody is just a means to an end.
If not, why would bitcoiners sacrifice their own custody to split their keys between multiple third parties (losing single ownership), or even hold them in a federation, like liquid (more private).
Hiding your holdings from the government is a way to protect them as well.
You could get forced by the government to pay any arbitrary portion of your holdings, even in a fixed rate like they did with gold with Executive order 6102. And yes, there are many countries you can go to jail by not paying taxes. US is one of them, and many others in Europe.