Not able to login on that site.

being able to copy lists from existing ones would be nice.

Do you plan to add following of others' lists to Amethyst?

Should we? I was hoping there would be "Copy list from Follow" apps.

https://Kind3.xyz 🙏🤙

Do you plan to stop the adopted blocklist thing amethyst does? As this sort of replaces it with more user control, not just happening in the background. I mean a lot of people don't even know it happens even... 🙏

The anti-spam filter? Definitely not removing it. But we can replace it with a better implementation.

Not really what I'd call it, if it's been blocking/shadowbanning non-spam genuine users tbh. I'd be glad to to see a better implementation tho. Although I suspect from your answer you don't really see it as a problem maybe? Hope I'm wrong tho:)

Yes, bcs it allows us then to detect which lists are popular. And you don't have to recopy every time curator updates their list.

followed by someone you follow... already exists... I already told you 10 times...

I keep track of how well the filter does. Right now, it's correctly removing 99.6% of incoming spam. A new implementation has to do better than that.

hum... but they we will need some form of event that informs a user is selecting somebody else's lists... Then we can measure popularity.

I suspect from what you've previously mentioned in the past we have differing opinions of 'spam' so I'm not sure about the usefulness of your 'kills 99.9% of germs' answer lol ;)

How about a list event of 'lists I am subscribed to'?

"Some of you may get blocked, but it's a sacrifice I am willing to make"

Again... feel free to send a PR with a better system. I am happy to take a look at it.

Sorry, I'm not sure I'd be capable of that lol what do other clients do who don't seem to have the shadowban problem? I'm just a casual user who doesn't want to see nostr fade into obscurity cos it replicates these blocking mechanisms which it sort of claims not to, whilst renaming them to a less inconvenient 'spam filter'. I'm not sure people coming here are gonna care if you say to them no no you're not shadowbanned, that doesn't happen on nostr... you're just 'spam filtered' cos 5 people disagreed with you.

I actually don't even know what PR stands for lol 😭 but how about an alert that comes up and warns you 'this user has been marked as spam' and you can uncheck them if you don't want them blocked? I have no idea lol. Also there is a lack of transparency on how the adopted blocklist works. Is it still if 5 people you follow mute/block someone, they also get blocked for you? Has that changed? Is it still 5? What if it's a more prominent user? I believe you have been muted by a few people, will you appear on the spam filter/ adopted blocklist or are you exempt?

> Sorry, I'm not sure I'd be capable of that Then place a bounty. Let's see if a dev can create a better one. > Do other clients do who don't seem to have the shadowban problem? Many clients filter Global in any way they see fit. Iris, for instance, does that through friends of friends. The biggest complaints a client gets are related to terrible posts in Global, spam in chats / DMs etc. So much so, that most people don't onboard their friends because of the global feed. In Amethyst's case, it's worse because we also offer chats and the stories feed, which have a TON of spam accounts.

A PR is a Pull Request. It's a way for developers to take changes to code they make and merge it into the main code of an app. The request allows a maintainer like @Vitor Pamplona to review and request changes and provide other feedback before adding features and other improvements.

Ah thank you, I didn't realise he was trying to pull me... as the second girl to join nostr is happens quite a lot 💅 Jk jk thanks for the clarification

I get it. It's good to feel wanted. You're welcome.

Me neither. Not sure why?

I do actually agree that spam is a major problem, to new user adoption and retention of existing users. I just also feel the need to point out that this faulty (I would say, you obviously disagree) 'spam filter' and (intented?) Blocklist/shadowban system is also a major problem, considering the sort of people nostr interests and people reach out to joining. I don't even know about bounties and how much people need for that, of I am rich enough to do that or have enough of a reach to even make something like that possible. I appreciate your answers and hope there is more transparency about the blocklist mechanisms and would be very grateful for a clarification on how it works if you have time. I think a lot of people don't know.

Only with Alby extension possible

The anti-spam filter is extremely simple: 5+ messages with exactly the same content and citations get you marked as a spammer in the app. The 5 posts need to be completely equal and done in a short amount of time. As a spammer, you go into a temporary block list that remains active until the user app closes. So, if you delete your posts, you get back to being seen by everyone. Now, this does not affect your followers. Following you takes precedence over any block list. Which means, your messages only disappear from the Global feeds and public chats of the people that are NOT following you. Simple and extremely effective.

I see, that sounds sensible. But I believe you've also mentioned a mechanism where if 5 people I follow, block someone, that user will also be blocked for me. Has that stopped?

Correct. So separate from the automated anti-spam filter (which is an Amethyst thing), there is the usual Nostr reporting system with NIP-56. In that system, people can report you for Spam, Scams, Explicit Content, Impersonation, and/or Illegal Behaviour. Anyone can report you or your posts at any time. Reports are saved on relays and might last forever. Many relays use that information to delete posts they don't want on their servers. Your reports only affect the people that are following you. When you report content, you add a warning sign for your followers. BUT that warning sign only shows up if 5+ accounts that a user follows reported the same note. So, alone, a reporter cannot do much damage. But if there is some agreement among the people a user follows, that user will see a warning post that shows who, among the people he/she follows, reported the post and a "Show Anyway" button. At that point, they can agree with their follows and also report that content or simply hide the reported user from their view entirely, OR they can disagree and report the reporter. If the report is not for a post, but for a user, a similar 5-reports-among-follows happens. BUT, for users, we cap the report in 24hrs. So, if your user (and not a post) gets reported today, tomorrow the followers of the reporter will start seeing your posts without the warning again. The reporting system does not hide posts from global feeds or chats, it's only between the user and the people that user follows. For instance, I have 100s of reports on my user. Many of them were deleted by relays that evaluate reports. But I believe 108 are left out there. Those reports only affect the followers of the reporting accounts. Since they are mostly random accounts, it doesn't affect anyone.

Thank you for the explanation. I think it is mostly the 'reported users' which I find a bit confusing and iffy. But you are saying all clients do this? Seems pretty weird to me that a user would be hidden if they said something somewhat (seen as) controversial or unpopular, and pretty easy to abuse as a system to block/silence users if there ever were to be bad actors collaborating (in a worse case scenario). Or just a very realistic scenario you disagree with the personal or political opinions of 5 prominent users...? But this is protocol-wide you say? That makes me feel a bit hmmm something lol:/ Am I completely misreading this?? I'm mostly an egirl but I'm wearing my investigative journalist serious hat atm

Not any "5 prominent users" it must be 5 prominent a given user follows. If the user agrees with those 5, then the user doesn't want to see it as well (it doesn't matter if it is a correct report or not). If the user does not agree with those 5 prominent accounts, they can: 1. Report those 5 for misleading reporters (if the majority agrees then those 5 accounts won't be prominent for much longer), 2. They can unfollow those 5 (or just one of them) 3. They can follow the reported account (which then, like I said in the anti-spam explainer, removes any blocks to that user). In general: 1. Users are free to post whatever they want. 2. Other users are free to report whatever they want. 3. Followers of those users can then agree or disagree and take action as well.

The reason I added prominent users is that most users will follow prominent Devs or other sorts of users which are recommended, there is also some cases where a client will automatically have a new user follow people from the start. If these prominent users had the same political opinion and didn't want to see the content of an opposing political opinion (or personal opinion of whatever eg) they are making a blocklist/shadowban, whether intentionally or not. And as a user you might agree with this actually. But it is quite difficult to undo or even notice, especially as a casaula user, even moreso when you are not even aware this is happening, and in fact nostr is sort of touted as not doing this. How is this different from the vibecheck we were lampooning BlueSky about? Sorry, I think I am more pondering now lol

> But it is quite difficult to undo or even notice, You will see a huge red button on the screen. So, don't worry. Everyone will see when that happens. That's the whole point. The entire reporting system is public and can be analyzed by anyone else. The bigger the account, the bigger the loss for misreporting.

Maybe it is a glitch in either the spamfikter or the reported user function, I don't know... But I have had to unblock people by following them. In one case I only noticed cos I have the pingstr thing set up which alerts me of DMs via a telegram message, and they happened to message me. There was no big red button, no indication at all. There's been a handful of people I've seen to date, and it's just people noticing and alerting. For example plebstr was showing me these user replies whilst amethyst was not. There was also no 'show anyway' option or anything. Which makes me wonder if amethyst is doing something different (?)

Yep, if any account that you don't follow has sent repeated messages to you, it will go into the anti-spam filter. This is a very typical spam we see in Nostr (random accounts messaging everyone, all the time). Once you follow them, you tell the app knows that you trust the account and thus it doesn't go to the spam filter. In that sense, it's quite similar to the Gmail Spam folder for marketing accounts. Repeat a few times and it all ends up there.

Is there a way to check what has already been marked as spam and hidden?

In these cases it wasn't repeated messages. They were replies (one reply each) and then one DM, (from a normal person lol). I can only assume they had been reported for unpopular opinions by people I follow. But there was no 'reveal post' or any alert or indication in any of the scenarios I've come across. (Apart from using plebstr as a sort of amethyst plugin to reveal these posts). I'd like to think these things can be less common. I'm also not that keen on having to follow people just to see their replies lol. I wonder if there is a solution to this (?)

Yep, Security Filters in the left drawer of the app

I've come across a few people blocked for me which aren't populated in the security filter. Just as an fyi

It's also possible that Amethyst is not finding the message on relays. Did you find the accounts in the security filter session in the left drawer? If they were never there and you never saw a red button, then it is something else (like a slow relay or a relay amethyst cannot connect to)

Followers or random people?

I've seen both examples 🤔

Then send me over when it happens. It's almost always duplicated messages.

I think Vitor is watching this and will improve results overtime. Nothing perfect. He may implement a switch off for users to opt out but 99% is really good

Yes, I will do. Well, hopefully I won't have to lol but I will if I see it. Thanks for your answers. I'm still going to start a prog/dungeonsynth band called Amethyst Shadowban, the name is too good. But you are welcome to join it;)

Yes, I am grateful he answered my questions, even tho I'm just a lil silly goose casual user lol. I like to think he (I mean like everyone else) has good intentions.

As long as that helps develop systems to monitor users and their reports, it should be good.

So desktop only

No. With Kiwi browser under Android you can install the Alby extension. I do this also. This is under my Android Kiwi browser: You see the Alby Extension is installed.

So many apps, so little memory.

Agree ❤️

Welcome to Nostr :)

Wow. Is that a joke? View quoted note →

Nostr is entire based on micro apps. The more micro, the merrier. So, expect tons of little apps. :)

I wish

Memory usuage S8 Tablet

Understood. It's a journey of app discovery.

I didn't say lightweight. :) Most apps keep everything in memory, Amethyst included.

I have Kiwi and extension installed. Still nothing.

Please add an account. Edit account and put your nostr keys in it. Restart browser and try again gl

Hah! I figured out why it wasn't working. Me! I keep overlooking the section in Alby that asks for the private key for encryption. Everything works now. Thanks.

Just left a reply with same information. Thanks.

Heeeeeeeeeeeeeee.. Nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So, for the pin list, are we supposed to use event IDs? Asking for a fren.