Alternative POV: your permanent *speech* record is unimportant. Speech is not action, and there’s nothing you could say on nostr that isn’t protected by the First Amendment. But what about the UK, or even the US apparatchiks like Tim Walz who want to criminalize dissent as “misinformation?” Surely it’s dangerous to say things on nostr that might one day be connected to your real life identity? No it is not. If some communist is going to get you for saying Kamala Harris is a moron, then they will get you for anything or nothing at all. The day I can be arrested for my nostr posts, the answer will not be to hide in anonymity and hope someone else — someone dumb enough to attach his real identity or unlucky enough to have his keys compromised — gets got instead. I really don’t like the ethos of: “Oh no, I can’t pretend I didn’t say what I said!” How about: "I said what I fucking said because I earnestly believed it at the time, and I either stand by it now or I realize I was in error and I no longer stand by it, though it was said in earnest, and it was an honest mistake." The people who are worried they’ll be arrested for free speech don’t really believe in free speech. The people who will only say what they truly believe anonymously don’t really believe in free speech. They believe one *should* have the right to free speech in an ideal society, but in the present one it doesn’t exist and therefore they won’t avail themselves of it. But your rights don’t come from society. They come from nature, God, the Tao, whatever. If you believe in free speech, you use it. And yes, I get it, if you’re in North Korea, you wouldn’t, and that’s fine. But if you’re intimidated by speaking the truth because you might get found out, God forbid, for earnestly expressing yourself by the UK loser police, you are not really for free speech. Not when it has even a small risk, a small cost. So if you want free speech to exist, speak freely, stop fomenting fear, have courage. Sorry, not meaning to pick on this particular npub — this is a common theme on this otherwise based protocol.
Ava's avatar Ava
I have been using Nostr for two years now, and the lack of a NIP-09 (event delete) or its equivalent standard on Nostr is, more than ever, a significant privacy and safety issue built into the current version of the protocol. Snowden warned us of the dangers of a permanent record. Have we not learned anything? Nostr, as it is right now, is a permanent record that seeks to tie all of your apps and your coin transactions to one key pair. If that key pair is ever compromised, EVERYTHING is compromised. If you accidentally doxx yourself, you are HOSED. It's bad OPSEC. And it sounds like a honeypot waiting to happen. Amber (event signer) is a decent workaround, but it has not passed a third-party security audit, and I still believe a parent/child key system is the way to go as it does not expand your attack surface by having to depend on a third party to keep all of your Nostr business safe. Now back to event deletion... The protocol is the protocol. Relays must use the protocol to participate in the network. If the protocol requires honoring event deletion requests to participate in the network, then Nostr will have avoided this festering security and safety issue. If certain #Nostr devs don't stop saying universal post deletes can't happen because of xyz (insert biased limiting belief/excuse here), and start figuring out how it can be done... it's a protocol design that's dead in the water to anything but mostly nameless, faceless anons. The future is privacy-first, client-side computing, not relays. The clock is ticking. image
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Not my main point at all. Those are your words. There are many other reasons. Here is my post from yesterday with another couple of examples of why not having a delete event function is dangerous. There are many more examples. The inability to delete posts on a platform like Nostr can have serious implications for personal safety, privacy, and overall well-being, particularly for vulnerable individuals or those in precarious situations.
Ava's avatar Ava
PSA: If your relay does not support NIP-09 (event deletion), I am removing it NOW. NIP-09 respects the fact that privacy-conscious folks may not want everything they post on Nostr to be archived on a permanent record. Did we not learn anything from Snowden? In garnet and Amethyst, go to your relays and tap on the name to see the NIPs each relay supports. The ability to delete events is not just about "not owning up to past comments"; it also respects the fact that among many potential issues (including malicious relays), people may accidentally doxx themselves and want that post removed. This can be especially dangerous for women who are dealing with stalkers or abusive exes, etc. Using relays that do not respect users' requests to delete events poses significant privacy and potential safety issues, and I will not continue to support the reluctance of relay runners to adopt and honor NIP-09 event deletion requests.
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Yeah, nah. Easy to take those shots when you're safe behind the First Amendment. For the rest of the world, doxxing oneself as a dissident is doing the security forces' work for them. I'm not bulletproof, and I can't help my kids learn about the system if I'm dragged off into the night for posting the wrong meme at the wrong time.
You think tyrannical regimes only persecute dissidents? They persecute regular people all the time for any or no reason. How many people died in communist China or Stalinist Russia? All dissidents? The truth is free speech is fatal to autocratic regimes which is why they ban it. The *only* defense is to speak up. Yes, if you go first you might increase your risk. But if no one goes first, everyone is doomed.
Tyrannical regimes pick their battles. If you're outwardly compliant, useful and unexceptional, chances are you will live a long life. We need to pick our battles, too. Tyrannical regimes don't die at the touch of truth and free speech. They die when regime security forces stand aside and let a mob storm Dear Leader's palace. That requires a lot of speech. Over a long period of time. Anonymous speech is best speech.
That's only the case in the US and EU where Assange and Snowden got got, but everyone else can mostly keep their heads down and be fine. In autocratic countries, tens of millions who kept their heads down were murdered. The security forces only stand aside when the writing is on the wall. But they won’t be reading it if no one’s posting it.
The inability to delete posts has two main implications — (1) censorship resistance; and (2) the need for care before posting. Just like the inability to reverse bitcoin transactions has implications for care and op sec in using that protocol. I understand there are particular situations where we wish we could undo the “send” for both protocols (if you’re robbed, e.g.). But final settlement and inability to delete is a feature IMO, not a bug. Everything goes on your permanent record, and that’s okay. Freedom means freedom, not freedom only if I didn’t say the wrong thing five years ago. Use freedom tech to re-negotiate on our terms, not those of the censor.
Disagree strongly. People speaking up is why so many of the covid measures had to be shelved. It’s never too early or too late. Some people will get got, of course, but you could also be a compliant shill and get a heart attack from the mRNA. No one knows what will happen. But you do know what you believe is true and you can say it.
I agree with this 100%, but it works because bullets can't be transmitted back up my Tor circuit :D
That girl in Ballarat got dragged off into the night in front of her kids for sh-tposting on FB during lockdown. IDK if they let her out again, but I wish she'd used Tor and a pseudonym. Freedom tech protects freedom.
I'm enjoying following you, Chris, but I'm going to respectfully somewhat disagree with you here. Call me spinless or whatever, but I'm not going to be coerced to put my ass on the line for "the greater good" if it's not my desire to do so. I choose to live free, and that means living how I choose.