A simple but useful relay browser by #[0] . All relay links could be through this site directly, that would give the user an instant view and feel of the relay they're looking at:
https://nostrrr.com/
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Very cool! Checkout the ocean boilers and bots on wss://powrelay.xyz
Do you have a direct link? I can't figure out this nrelay stuff, haha.
I can browse it on https://coracle.social/relays/powrelay.xyz, but hey, it is not working. I can see many notes with basically no proof-of-work at all in there.
Do better your documentation doesn’t work
https://nostrrr.com/relay/nrelay1qqf8wumn8ghj7ur0waex2mrp0yh8s7t6yttsar
Weird, I saw an option to type a relay URL. I don't even know wtf nrelay is
Believe it or not, so few people do POW still that two leading 'q's in the bech32 event id is plenty to meet the current cut-off.
The water bot and nost-commits bot do 10 leading bits I think.
Is the rate is adjusted to the number of people publishing to the relay?
Adjusted to keep the database size constant. So it will get harder over time.
Also, events that no longer meet the minimum pow requirements get kicked out. So the more pow, the longer it'll be stored.
It’s like a mempool for nostr events
This is super cool.
Exactly.
Can users submit more work somehow to re-up old notes that fall below the new threshold? This does seem like a powerful anti spam / spam deletion tool though.
#[4] I saw PoW on notes sometimes in amethyst, thoughts?
People can always recreate events in the past if relays accept it. So, one could replace all of their events with bigger PoW ones.
I don't think this helps with spam at all though. If there is one thing we know about spammers is that they have access to significant computing power.
Agree, I envision it as tool for discovery. People with something important to say can attach pow to it so that others have a signal to pay attention.
Yes, that's certainly possible. wss://powrelay.xyz will accept events with any timestamp.
But won’t the note ID be different?
This is a great idea. Hashcash auctions for real world resources.
Oh, I see what you mean. Yes, of course, it'll have more POW.
For example, I want to keep my profile event on wss://powrelay.xyz so whenever the POW threshold increases I can post a new copy of to the relay with more POW. Here's the latest: View quoted note →
Relays could advertise their current minimum PoW. Clients then pick the relays with cheapest PoW. This has the effect of distributing demand evenly across the network. Should I write a NIP? Basically this idea: 
Hashcash Auctions for Decentralized Resource Allocation
Chris McCormick - News
POW is "memoryless" in the sense that if you want, say, 30 leading zeroes it doesn't matter if you already have a nonce that gives you 29 leading zeroes or not, you'll still end up searching for the special "30 leading zeroes" nonce for just as long. So there's no really any reason to "add" POW to an event that already has POW.
Great read!
I guess you'd want relays to have websocket connection slots that clients could bid for with POW, then storing events could work like powrelay or maybe there'd be some kind of time expiration component. I just wanted to collect most precious events in one place but resource allocation with pow would be awesome too.
I meant could I like post a reply to an old note with some kind of format the relay accepted to apply the new PoW to the old note to keep it from being deleted from the relay? Nostr child-pays-for-parent
Yep, why not both? Clients must bid for both connection slots and space in the fixed-size database. The underlying values could be computed dynamically as well, e.g. fixed database size could be based on disk size - if the relay owner adds more disk suddenly there are more slots and therefore they become cheaper.
Hey, any thoughts in using RandomX (CPU-only POW algo) for these kind of things? So that in long term more clients can provide their own POW and not have ASICs messing things up.
GitHub
RandomX/doc/design.md at master · tevador/RandomX
Proof of work algorithm based on random code execution - tevador/RandomX
Sounds needlessly complex.
Just make a new note, "Nostr replace-by-fee" (I don't like this analogy but it kinda fits)
I think ASICs are good. You don't need to own one, you can just rent one for a few sats over lighting.
Rent google's cpus on https://powrelay.xyz/work.html
But notes are quoted and referenced by the network, how does that work when you post a new version?
Good point, new references would point to the new note. That doesn't seem so bad to me though, it's not like the old note dissapears entirely when its replaced by higher pow notes, other relays can still store it.
If you designed some kind of proxy pow event kind, I would be interested and potentially start a new relay for that. I do love the simplicity of just highest pow per byte though.
Idk, there’s probably a use case but I don’t see it with a social network the way you’re describing. Makes no sense to repost old notes, the whole point is the historical context and the conversations that happen/ed on them, need to be able to re-up a note’s PoW to keep it on relays, thus spam would be auto deleted, not new spam, but historical, while real people who care about their notes can dedicate some PoW to maintain them
I don't think POW is the best solution to spam. POW is to prove that the message it's attached to is important to you.
Not all social media has to be about "historical context" and "conversations". imo best use of social media is about sharing important messages with as many people as possible. Once the message is out there, people can discuss among themselves and make up their own minds.
So messageboard relays that can sort the signal from the noise
I’m imagining a job board relay where old posts don’t matter as much and both employers and employees by posting on a particular PoW threshold relay can signal to each other they’re real and serious
Exactly
@Vitor Pamplona any possibility to have #Amethyst adding PoW to our events sometimes soon?
We display it, but the sender is not here yet. nostr:npub1max2lm5977tkj4zc28djq25g2muzmjgh2jqf83mq7vy539hfs7eqgec4etdid a first draft a few weeks back. Maybe we need to bring that back into the focus somehow.
The nostr:npub didn't get converted to a clickable @ in this reply 🤔🤔
🫂🙏
Yeah but if you need to pay sats to an ASIC provider, why not just pay them to the relay directly instead?
To me the beauty of PoW based social media is that people wouldn't even need to "pay", it could be a "free" but still quality experience like current social media is.
Of course, everything needs to be paid for one way or another, but paying with your CPU cycles could perhaps be a more seamless experience than sats, on some scenarios.
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Agree.
Maybe you could start a nostr POW service (like https://powrelay.xyz/work.html) that accepts monero (or RandomX mining) as payment in exchange for nostr POW.
That's the beauty of POW, since it's trivial to verify, it's also trivial to outsource.