That's a very keen response to what I said. I am a firm believer of the idea that when engagement occurs early enough, and when the participants are creative enough, nobody will ever have to test bad ideas out in reality to see that they are bad. But in practice I can't agree with your limits. There are many who believe that others have no right to self defense, and some of those people choose to hurt others. If I had to, I would be willing to disprove their faulty belief the hard way, even if it means crossing the threshold where it inflicts pain on them.