ponymontana💜⚡'s avatar
ponymontana💜⚡ ponymontana@nostriches.club 1 year ago
agree with you in some ways, and I frankly would migrate every chat to nostr based solutions with 0xchat. For me is more importat freedom than an abstract "security", and I'd happily abandon signal today if my chats friends would agree. But still, its important to have secrecy on nostr and secret/really private chats. For example, forward secrecy is something someone understimate unless copy paste the wrong key and leak chats from 3 years ago. We need nip104, normies are not the target in this stage of development in my opinion. Low-time preference tradeoffs need to be taken today, normie friendly clients that mix nip-44 and nip-104 in a convenient way will come one day. Also and most important: in my opinion, every new development propsal and nip shouldnt have the goal of attract normies. Companies and clients should.
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Niel Liesmons's avatar
Niel Liesmons 1 year ago
1. Pasting the wrong key is a stronger argument for proper key management than for ratchets 2. Relays (owned by users, combined with throw away npubs, Tor etc) offer the most options in terms of secrecy. This is the major blindspot in this whole discussion. 3. Generalizing NIP-104 forces me into a crappy UX design space I can't do anything novel with. It's a centralizing force that makes you end up with a Simplex-like solution anyway. "Simplex but on Relays and with your Keypair" is worse in terms of secrecy and reliance. 4. I'm not going after normies yet. Normielization is a byproduct of making Nostr absolutely awesome for the early adopters. To me, that awesomeness is found in the vast new design space Keys, Relays and Events offer. Not in the complicated extra protocols we can cram into Nostr. 5. I'm pointing out that it's worth looking at what the Telegram users (that didn't switch to Simplex) **love** using it for. Hint: it's not the ratchet UX 😉.There's a reason Telegram stepped away from that and why it's the most hated feature of Signal's UX by many. To most of those users, being able to go back in time through pictures and messages is a fantastic feature, as is the friction-less multi-device access, as are finegrained admin options and whole list of other stuff best achieved by, you guessed it, Relays.
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