The Chaotic Path to Abundance
“One thing I did want to ask you, actually, because you mentioned Elon Musk. He was saying, don't even bother saving for your pension for ten years out. We're not even going to need money where we're going.
And I can't even comprehend what he's trying to say with that. One, is it because everything is so fucked up? Because we enter an age of abundance, we have to have a new measuring stick.
I cannot get my head around it at all.
I think it's the latter. I think it's the latter that ultimately there's this age of abundance. But when you think through what that really means, right, like.
Let's take it to the extreme. Let's pretend every product that you access is free, everything.
How does, how do all of the corporations who borrowed hundreds of billions of dollars, mostly to buy back stock in America over the last 20 years, how do they repay their debt?
Or do they even exist after that?
If their products are all free. Like, and again, that's just, this is like, extremes inform the means, right? So I think, and I think a lot of times Elon talks in eventualities of extremes.
And I think that's what he's saying. Well, if everything is free, then literally every American corporation has nothing to sell. They have no revenues, but they still have their debt.
Well, guess what that means? The value of the equity is, because Capital Structure 101 says the bondholders get, exactly, zero. In an age of abundance, it's almost like a Schrodinger's finance.
The stock market goes to zero and goes to infinity at the same time.
Because if everything is free, the discount rate goes to zero and assets are worth infinity. But at the same time, Capital Structure 101, the balance sheet, the equity is zero because the bond holders are going to say, hey, oh, you have no product anymore. But maybe they create new products on their side.
So as people try to figure that out, you're going to see volatility. I think that's like we're in the very early days of that stock market. Up 800, down 600, up 800, what do I do?
It's Schrödinger's market.
If everything's free, if nobody has jobs, let's even take it back. Let's take away from the corporations because I think that's very hard to visualize.
But how do you coordinate? I even think how do we coordinate? How do you decide who has what land?
What property do you live in?
Well, take a step back to a much harder example, which is 52% of receipts in America are from employment. Employment, let's just say, great, go on, some big part. Again, let's take that number, let's cut that number in half.
So now, the federal government is running, there's short receipts, 25%. So now, just the interest plus the entitlements on the debt are, what did I say, 25% on half, two and a half, we're gonna take that down by half, so two and a half, three and a half, four. So we're gonna have about $5.5 trillion in entitlements and interest over 4.8 trillion in receipts.
And that's just, do they print the money, do they not print the money? And there are two. If they print the money, the bonds are worthless, are gonna be worth a lot less on a real basis, and if they don't print the money, the bonds are literally gonna default.
But this is the sort of the stuff that sort of Elon, and I've seen as brilliant as he is, he sort of goes from here to here. He did it with those, right? I'm just gonna cut 2 trillion.
I remember going, are you high? You can't cut 2 trillion. And he was like, no, no, no.
And if I had a nickel for every person who told me Elon would figure it out, he's the smartest man, and he is one of the smartest men in the industry, and he's a brilliant businessman, and all these things, brilliant technologist. And I had sixth grade math going, Elon is never gonna get anywhere near cutting a trillion dollars. And I had so many people tell me, oh, he's gonna because he's Elon.
Well, math is math. Same thing here, math is math.”
From The Peter McCormack Show: #153 - Luke Gromen - The AI-Debt Collision Breaking the Financial System, Mar 4, 2026

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#153 - Luke Gromen - The AI-Debt Collision Breaking the Financial System
Podcast Episode · The Peter McCormack Show · March 4 · 1h 22m
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