Having 10x better conservations on Nostr Airchat than normal Nostr right now lol… man I love Airchat. People just want to fight far less often when they can actually hear my voice.
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It wouldnt help me much. I get hate by keeping silent how much more when I open my mouth. Lol 🤣🥳🖖✨️
what is airchat?
nostr:note1ltvky54rsdppk8anq6upxvjftm8nkkj6gmvw45lk2lvjglek6v5qw66k88
nostr:note1vjpj9fxv0y78hdzfyxj5yv4ggzdsu4wd4u0azp4rsd29ks3eaz5su5l7h9
looks really good!
Are you using NIP-A0 for the notes? I've not been seeing them in my client and wondering if I've missed something on implementation
We are not. Documentation will be released soon!
We couldn’t use it because the content area is the transcription now, not the URL to the audio file. Sorry! nostr:npub18ams6ewn5aj2n3wt2qawzglx9mr4nzksxhvrdc4gzrecw7n5tvjqctp424
Why not use a tag for the transcript reference then post the transcript as a separate event?
I guess that could work, but a lot of people are already using Airchat—more users than YakBak. I don’t want to wipe all their notes from a breaking change. YakBak didn’t support transcriptions so we made our own spec.
We put the link to the audio file in a tag and the transcription in the content.
That's understandable but breaks the standard and now I can't enjoy your voice messages as a non-iOS guy 🥲
What about making a transition script that the user can transition to A0? It could just query all the existing kinds and have a single publish to A0 to transfer past work then disappears once the user has published one.
The standard did not support transcriptions. Airchat is meant for audio+transcriptions. I think other apps should ditch A0.
Or other apps can use A0 for audio messages that lack transcripts. 2 specs.
if you would have talked to me you would have known that i've always wanted to do transcriptions, since the launch of yakbak, this has always been a goal, but figuring out how to do it in a decentralized manner. i've mentioned this to nostr:npub180cvv07tjdrrgpa0j7j7tmnyl2yr6yr7l8j4s3evf6u64th6gkwsyjh6w6 a few times.
it's extremely disappointing that you had an opportunity to be interoperable with half a dozen apps that already support the NIP-A0 spec and instead decided to do something completely different and incompatible instead of updating the NIP or incorporating it in another manner like Patrick suggested.
interoperability is supposed to be one of nostr's most powerful features.
if developers do not work together or or communicate, then what's the point of having a shared protocol? we win by being interoperable. we win by working together.
you can obviously do whatever you like since it's an open protocol, but sometimes you gotta use the sword and not go alone.
How hard was it to add a transcription tag for fucks sake.
yeah this is pretty disappointing. instead of using a standard adopted by half a dozen apps, we now have a new standard that no one else uses, when the existing standard could have been used in addition to new features or even updated to allow those features to be included in the standard.
Mate none of the apps have transcriptions. It would’ve required changing the A0 spec and updating the “dozens” of apps. No need to be upset.
i don't understand why you couldn't just add a new tag and ammend or update the spec? instant compatibility.
Please relax…
nostr:note19yj8y47z99sluc7ugjvfx0cmsmsav4fm5r68zkpy4w5zhvp2qw2sk3zcun
We did amend the spec! You don’t understand. We moved the link to the tag instead of the content, then we put the transcription in the content.
apps can update to include the transcription tag?
just like any other NIP. you don't need to support the whole entire spec if you don't want to do so. these tags are optional.
want to support blurhashes on NIP-68? do it! don't want to? don't do it!
🤦♂️ words are usually put in the content area… so that’s what we did… we put the link in the tag. It’s a very simple change. It will take devs 5 minutes to change. You aren’t understanding. Calm down.
nostr:note1gxxawzucu2lf7sxyjz6kphgxajmltxkpmdggmqfc09mp6phs50vs2tw5gl
you said you're not using NIP-A0 and you said it's not compatible which is why we are not seeing them in the other half a dozen clients that support them. so which is it?
“We moved the link to the tag instead of the content, then we put the transcription in the content.”
A0 has the link in the content instead of a tag. That’s all we changed. It will take devs 5 minutes to update.
There is convention to use the content only when creating a new kind. It does not mean you should retroactively change things.
Tags/content are not special
This is the same as the retarded NIP-04/44 change.
I am assuming this is done in bad faith as you have not released even a preliminary documentation that would have taken much less time to write than your replies
Excuse me? Go fuck yourself. If you don’t want to use Airchat, then don’t.
All we did was move the link to the tag (which is how normal posts work).
Then we added the transcribed text to the content area (which is how normal posts work).
Nothing is done maliciously. You are attacking me needlessly. GFY!
i think it would have been extremely helpful to discuss beforehand as prehaps updating the spec and existing apps may be beneficial. this NIP was discussed and changed several times before it was merged. maybe we overlooked an additional use case and it could be updated once again if this is deemed better.
There is no such thing as a “normal post”, there are conventions, they are never universally followed, and “amending” a spec for the sake of amending a spec, in a way that breaks compatibility with all other competitors and has no real benefit is just questionable at best and malicious at worst.
NOTHING CHANGES IF THE LINK IS IN A TAG OR THE CONTENT!
Fuck off, learn how to read
nostr:note1lmeucqh2t9y2xusmsmz7rs3mj5h6jwdz5ulxxcy0qaynya9g8mjqsve4jl
nostr:note1lmeucqh2t9y2xusmsmz7rs3mj5h6jwdz5ulxxcy0qaynya9g8mjqsve4jl
this is a breaking change for the sake of a breaking change. to the protocol, tags, content, they are the same.
this can be implemented in a nonbreaking and forward/backward compatible way by just adding a “transcription” tag
Oh no it’s the nostr police 🚨
Telling me how to build
explain to me what is the benefit of your change that you still have not clearly documented and is worse than just adding a tag
It’s just how we built it. We could’ve added a tag for the transcript but clients would need to add it, which would take just as long as adding what we did. Same dev time.
how about you follow basic protocol evolution conventions that have existed long before nostr
🥱
One is a breaking change the other is not
That’s the point. We don’t want clients to play it unless they support transcripts.
oh huh why are you telling people how to build their apps?
okay. are you using the same event kind? perhaps it makes sense for all apps to make these changes and choose to not show the content if they want to only show the link audio.
we've need to loop in all of the other app devs that we'd be talking about breaking changes as this would completely break old events and they would no longer show audio. maybe some regex kung-fu could be used to band-aid fix them on the client side.
maybe you could submit a PR to NIP-A0 and we can begin this discussion?
The point of Airchat posts is audio+transcripts.
If people don’t want to support Airchat posts in their app, they don’t have to. 🤷♂️
i don't think that's the standard... for example on zappix, i don't have to support blurhashes or geohashes if i don't want to, but the event includes that data.
go make a different kind then
Not using the same kind, but the note structure is the same except for that change. It is what it is. You can still sign in with your key and connect to any relay, which is already better than Primal.
We did!
You guys just started attacking me before we even published it. It’s absurd.
Oh my fucking god
If your entire intention on Nostr is to build proprietary specs and force others to comply with how YOU do things, then stop piggybacking off of free relays that are being run by people for *interoperability*, and make your own centralized backend
It is not proprietary you fucking idiot! It’ll be released soon. You’re literally hilarious, yakbak was made as a clone of Airchat.
If you don’t want to support it, then don’t mate. We are happy with the app. Simple as that.
so you made a similar app to existing apps and features, but decided to NOT use the same event kind?
that's like making a photo feed app and not using kind:20 images in it because you wanted to add a new feature.
im trying really hard to understand and to work with you so we can keep app interoperability and compatability here for the betterment of nostr.
then the apple’s lightning connector is not proprietary
it checks all the boxes
✅ managed by a single organization with interest in control over the design
✅ little to no intention to cooperate, imposing specs preferred over collaboration
✅ attempted as a way to divide the ecosystem
✅ designed solely to serve the owner’s use case
Putting a massive amount of text in a tag feels awfully awkward. We decided to make a new NIP for Airchat. If apps don’t want to support it, they don’t have to. Simple as that.
- we aren’t a corporation
- we have basically no funding you twat
- go fuck yourself
my post did not say anything about you being a greedy corporation
it appears you have no intention to collaborate and I hope others realize this
you may continue development in your own isolated island
We made a new spec. People can adopt them, we will help them do that if they want to. You guys are just mad we didn’t use your old spec—which didn’t have transcripts.
I’m done arguing with you. We will continue on just fine.
nostr has such an amazing chance to do something that no other social system has ever done, allowing developers to work together and build independantly. for that vision to come true, developers need to actually want to work together.
we have the opportunity to make this meme continue to be a reality or make it a laughable joke of the past. https://xkcd.com/927/
im absolutely mad but it has nothing to do with me.
i'd be mad if you made a photos app and decided to use event kind 64 instad of 20, just because you wanted to add something that wasn't in the spec.
it's uneeded duplication of work and makes things harder for not only developers, but users too. nostr is confusing enough as it is with 6 different kinds of DMs. why do we need 2 different kinds of photos and 2 different kinds of voice messages?
Airchat is not the same thing as YakBak.
YakBak is a poor clone of Airchat that doesn’t have transcriptions.
you keep making this about you for some reason.
You’re the one who’s making it about you. I’m just trying to build this app in peace.
me: *makes half a dozen suggestions to work together to maintain interopoerabilty and compatability across 6 different apps*
you: *no im doing my own thing*
i am DEFINITELY making this all about me. yep.
These apps don’t have transcriptions. If we used that NIP, all the apps would hear Airchat posts without having transcriptions. That isn’t what Airchat is about, so we made a new NIP.
This about representing what Airchat is about, not me or anyone in particular. You never used Airchat and merely cloned it in a janky app, so you may not understand.
That's why they're different apps, they do things differently. Maybe other apps would have added support for the transcript tag, maybe they wouldn't but that's for them and their communities, no?
i made several suggestions on how i felt that we could remedy this and work together. you told me you didn't want to each and every single time i tried to do so. i was very curteous and kind. i can't extend an olive branch forever. at some point you have to realize some people don't care about the things you care about and move on. good luck Colby!
Others apps can add the Airchat NIP if they want to. Yes, that’s for them to decide.
Tell yourself whatever story you need to buddy 😂
Standards are different than apps. If we all make a standard then what's the point of even making it on nostr? Why not just use a private DB on a website and enable API access to your data?
transcripts could have literally been a second event. they don't even need to be included in the audio event. there are so many ways to do this lol
2 JSONs? That is computationally much slower…
The point is that you shouldn't make changes to the spec that don't result in changes to the UX, just because you feel that the data structure is cleaner. The reason is that making such a change means there is now new development work that needs to be done in existing apps to support your new spec.
You keep saying, "it will take devs 5 minutes," but the point is that it should take them *zero* time wherever possible. Unless there is community agreement that the structures/protocol should be changed in a manner that isn't backwards-compatible, you shouldn't make such changes, because such changes just cause the app ecosystem to become needlessly fractured.
Anyone can also use your spec and not add a transcription making your work the same as nip A0
True… if people do that out of laziness, we will need to add logic to Airchat to block posts that lack transcriptions.
No transcriptions would destroy the UX of Airchat. Posts would look empty.
In any case you will have to check for it or you think everyone will just follow the spec or that there will never be bad actors?
Again making you work the same as just changing the nip A0 to have transcripts
If there are bad actors, then we’ll use WoT to narrow the feed. Not to worry
Kind1 puts the text in the content. That’s what we did… putting that much text in a tag just felt wrong. Sorry! 🤷♂️
I understand this part from a convention standpoint but it ultimately does not really matter (tags or content is completely arbitrary at the end of the day).
I agree with the people here that there would have been multiple sollutions to this situation, and plenty of room for coordination, that will also allow you to easily filter events that dont include a transcript.
They might have come out a bit hostile out of the gate, but understand its mostly dissapointment.
Also understand that Nostr only has 1 commons, which is not that of the servers/relays, something other protocols try and fail because its stupid. Nostr's commons is that of the immaterial (loose) coordination on standards. And we don't have a police, and technically you can do whatever you want, but commons only thrife when participants forgo immediate opportunity for the sake of long term accrued benefits.
People see you taking immediate opportunity and see the opportunity cost of that action, which explains why they are not happy.
I hope you can reflect and can come back to the table at some later moment in time.
words of wisdom. that's why you get paid the big zaps.
Putting that much text in a tag just doesn’t make any sense, if we are basing what “nostr” is off of kind1 posts.
When you say “nostr”, that’s what it is… kind1 mostly. All these other NIPs are fighting to survive. I don’t have to respect all of them. That’s the point of permissionless development. Audio posts are barely used on nostr, and nostr itself is barely popular as is.
Centralised backend .
Well, it seems you took very little time reflecting.
My 2 cents:
The transscripts should be seperate events, that reference whatever event it is they are transscribing. This has a couple of benefits;
1: transscripts can be produced after the fact;
2: transscripts can be produced by anyone;
3: transscripts can apply to all sorts of events.
It would allow your client to provide transscripts for voice events that appearently did not have any.
This way your usecase can leverage stuff that is already out there, and other clients can ignore transscripts if they want to.
This set-up will benefit clients that would want to provide a good experience for deaf people for example, that can now addopt this broader transscript standard.
All a clients has to do, is also query for transscript events related to the stuff it wants transscripts for.
2 events would slow the feed loading down… 1 event is much faster computationally. It seems to me that you’re the one who needs more time to reflect! We spent months crafting this, please try to understand.
but what kind are you using?