Replies (169)
Agree on the first, disagree on the second.
Can we move along now?
No. You've devolved into (pretty terrible and unfunny) ad hominems.
You're the one who is breaking a good faith discussion. 🤷♂
It takes real courage to reexamine your own opinions and I applaud you for that.
I still think it's not even as clear cut as that: she was there specifically to cause trouble and conflict.
I have every reason to be partisan here but I'm really trying to keep an open mind.
I think it’s 3k daily or something like that
But you probably know more about ICE than I
Yes. It really is.
I think I frustrate a lot of people who attempt to put me in a political box because my positions are consistent since they aren't framed by politics. Plus, I know I'm retarded so that doesn't bother me in the least. 🤣🤣🤣
Being able to make sound decisions and keep your cool under pressure are part of the job, and this was definitely a fail. I disagree that this agent should be assumed to be acting according to some prepared strategy, to go shoot all the Karens.
I also know that many of these protestors are experienced agitators and go out of their way to create these sort of situations, so that they have an excuse to protest and get good video material for the Social Media Outrage Machine. This situation escalated too quickly, so that they couldn't control it, and they all made a surprised face, but this is their (paid) hobby. They do this shit all day and it's usually fun for them.
ICE agents are an easy group to point fingers at, but they also attack firefighters, teachers, cops, nurses, ambulance personnel, bus drivers, trash collectors, etc. It's getting harder and harder to hire for essential services, and to retain staff, in urban areas, as you end up constantly under attack. Islamists, Marxists, environmentalists, illegal immigrants, radical feminists, Transactivists, Antifa...
It's all the same club and I am not in it.
I fucking hate misogynists. His argumemt is pathetic.
@npub1m4ny...c2jl please put this asshole on his place.
You're a coward or a troll. Grow up.
Murder requires malice and aforethought. He didn't pick her out weeks ago and stalk her around and wait to attack her, or something.
This looks more like a lesser degree of manslaughter, at the most.
I believe him, but occasionally putting your life on the line is part of his job and we are to hold him to a higher standard than a normal citizen.
I don't agree. Second-degree seems like the most reasonable designation. He chose to pull out his sidearm and shoot her multiple times.
I'm not a victim. I'm am a nearly professional pot-stirrer. 😁
Sure. He exaggerated. Who doesn't from time to time? You've latched on to that pretty hard. But you can't claim that about me since I've been pretty consistent that I don't think this was premeditated based on what is currently known.
I'm not morally superior. I'm simply being, IMO, consistent. I'm not even attaching any morality to a majority of my statements since that's a mess to discuss and a morass to argue.
He is my buddy, but we disagree often. But, we're still friends, or at least pretty decent faceless internet acquaintances. You pointed out his degree inconsistency. He accepted that, if you'll care to remember.
So what's your beef?
That's because he is a National Guardsman, who served in Iraq. It's a major and widespread problem, using military and ex-military to do state-side policing.
I am attributing malice to the fact of when he drew his pistol.
But, if it came up in a court and he was tried and convicted of manslaughter, I would be satisfied with that outcome.
Yes. Because it is funny. And you are providing fine entertainment this day!
Seeing this gives me hope. You're one of the few who are capable of changing their minds. Its a rare and remarkable thing.
As for why I'm in this movie, maybe I just knew I had to represent. Cause the one good part in this movie for a black man and they gave it to Crocodile Dundee.
Well said, was my thought too, but didn't wanna weigh in on the particulars of this situation.
No one makes sounds decisions when they are afraid of dying. We go through a lot of training to prepare for that moment, and even then, a lot of people fuck it up and die. That woman had a right to protest. Training for a minimum of one year before entering a combat zone should not be a prerequisite for a citizen protesting.
That said, she was partially murdered by her "wife," who goaded the officer. She should stand trial too, though I don't think she should be judged in the same way as the officer who responded to her by moving his phone to his other hand, pulling his weapon and executing the woman out of spite.
Look, I don't like leftists, either. Let's move past that. They can be stupid, we can call them stupid, but murder isn't acceptable.
Compared to MAGA, democrats look like geniuses.🤣
It still looks like a modified video. I'm no expert, if I'm wrong, its not intentional. It just doesn't fit the other video where there was no dude where he is there.
Accidental geniuses, and still utterly untrustworthy. But I'll give them a marginal increase in opinion compared to a couple years ago.
Yes.
Because I know him and I don't know you so I am able to overlook that based on prior history and see that he is still, IMO, mostly correct.
I don't know you. I will certainly give the benefit of the doubt to those I know before those I don't.
And you are just off into ad hominem land when you had started off with a perfectly cogent debate. it devolved into arguing and now it is personal attacks. Bro, stop. They will not work on me. I have been a keyboard warrior for far too long to be goaded or upset by that. I probably have a lower opinion of myself than you have of me. Just stahp!
How is it contradictory?
I am being so consistent it isn't even funny. Just because my foundation of my arguments is not one you would like to accept, and that multiple horrible things can be true at one time is a fact of life doesn't mean that I am inconsistent.
You calling someone a misogynist is comical. That is a perfect example of an ad hominem. I like to point that out as it is funny to me. I am certainly mocking your use of that tactic, as it should be mocked.
Hey! We agree. I am all for physical removal, so to speak. (HHH reference FTW!)
Here is another thing that sucks, but is also true: The retarded dyke has every right to protest government action she sees as incorrect. That is her right to free speech, assembly, and of association at action. She played the game badly and lost. The leftists are going to make her a sainted martyr. The right is going to make the agent a sainted hero. That story has already been crafted and disseminated. You are still missing the further point: Who set this up? For what purpose? Without asking that, you are never going to understand what is going on now and what will happen next.
I am also not white knighting her. She's a horrible woman. Period. I honestly can't stand leftist women the most. They are ugly, twisted creatures who can't even see basic facts through years of delusion being blown up by years of circle fartsniffing other leftist delusion.
But guess what? She was still human. She still had rights. You are human. I am human. We still have rights. And if I cannot stand up for a fellow human's rights, then I am not being consistent with my own beliefs. Just because you hate someone doesn't mean you are allowed to strip them of their humanity to be able to justify murder or worse. (There is always worse . . . )
You saying that kind of thing shows that you have no consistent belief, just that you want to be rid of whatever you hate. I reject that mode of being. It is awful and leads to the worst kinds of attrocities, the kind that are happening all over the world right now. It is sad to see someone decently intelligent and articulate so sucked into to political "sides" when that is the worst way in which to view the world. IMO.
"I'm consistent"
Goes on to explain in detail how and why you're biased
Ok. Don't care about the rest of the stuff you said.
I think they're trained to keep shooting, if they start. But also to avoid starting.
The whole scene is a bewildering circus. And there were apparently run-ins with her before. Their apparent overreaction might be caused by some previous incident. These can be mitigating circumstances.
I'm withholding judgement. Only a jury will see everything.
It's Nostr. If I put misogynists in their place, I'd never be done.
It could be. I hate video, so I can't do any technical kind of analysis on the footage itself. This is what should come out of a thorough investigation, but I am beginning to doubt there will be one.
There's political stakes, so there will be no honesty
If you enter the country illegally, you should at least be required to pay a fine and deportation is a reasonable response. And you should be barred from applying for citizenship, since your disregard for the rule of law is apparent.
The police should be the ones finding and arresting them, but the local government has refused to do that job, so the federal government has taken over. The federal government is only in this position because previous admins refused to control the border.
If you open your external borders, you eventually finish the border fight in your residential areas.
My view on this situation is consistent.
My view on my friends in consistent.
My view on you has changed.
If you can't parse bias, you are not fit to have anything worth sharing with others. Everyone is biased. We are human. Bias/judgement is how we function. Applying it correctly is hard. Maybe you don't understand that.
Imagine that . . . He must be so racist. heh
Oh, I am certainly trained to shoot until the threat is neutralized, and, frankly will do just that if I am at the point where I have drawn my own weapon to defend me or mine.
You are right about it being a circus.
So?
No one would. There isn't enough time. LOL!
His whole family has had to go into hiding. So much for "peaceful protestors".
Yup.
Hence the masks.
Which is why that doesn't make me mad, as I would do the same thing.
*sighs* This all sucks.
This might helps understanding agents. But all this explanations would never change a thing that a murder has to go to prison.
Only because there is a logic, that has lead to murder, does not change something in the fact, that it is still murder.
No matter if he is afraid, stressed, bad educated or what preconditions a person has.
Sucks
I agree
I am all for deporting from all americas all immigrants and their children
Starting form year 1500 (just for the round number)
It’s all fucked up
(I would maybe exempt those brought by force)
Cool but I get to bring my guns and reconquer my homelands, right?
You mean to steal it again?
By the way - are the guns not meant to protect people from stupid government?
Kind of don’t see this piece of construction working
I really don't understand what you typed.
It seems to me like you are implying that not shooting a civilian in the head 3 times - two of them from the side of her vehicle when in zero danger - is an "impossible standard". I think it's a pretty basic standard, along with not calling citizens "fucking bitch" after you killed them. Along with allowing medics to provide aid to the person you just shot. And not leaving the scene immediately with your firearm. Along with the entire Federal government not dragging her name through the mud and calling her a terrorist before an investigation even began.
I think these should be considered bottom of the fucking barrel standards. And neither the agent nor the Federal government lived to to these basic standards. It's not just about the (senseless and evil) shooting, it's the entire shit sandwich.
Does this position come with dental lol?
It is the law of the land, to take mitigating circumstances into consideration, when deciding the charges. That is the same, in Switzerland.
> More woman behavior
This is the part I didn't really appreciate. The word "woman" isn't a perjorative.
Otherwise, go back to verbally bashing each other's heads in. You all seemed to be enjoying it and I didn't want to interrupt.
The way you did it is pretty misogynistic. I insult women all the time, but I am very rarely called a misogynist except as a supposedly hurtful invective. I insult nearly everyone, so don't think you're special or anything. I mostly just bring that up because if *I* think you went to far with insults, it's probably pretty bad.
I will agree with this take a bit more than the nym you are responding to's take.
If he was, in fact, dragged by another car earlier, then he is, in fact a really bad kinda retard for getting in front of another vehicle. That is a hugely stupid thing to do and one of the most basic faux pas anyone in a stupid, tense, angry situation can make. Geez.
It isn't super clear cut, but I am not going to give him that much benefit of the doubt.
You skipped over my argument, that nobody would need to deport them, if they had never been imported.
They did this in Germany, too. Insisted we let everyone in, and they would sort through them and then deport — pinky-swear. Then it came time to deport and they were like, Oh, it would be too mean to deport!
Turns out that it is much harder to deport 1 person than import 100k persons. And they knew that, from the beginning.
They are.
This entire situation was a perfect example of the poor security measures and incompetence within US law enforcement agencies.
That is better, yes, as it's a reference to specific types of behavior, rather than to all members of one sex.
Yes. Because you aren't insulting all women with that, just men who are feminized.
I will totally accept that instead. Thank you for attention in this matter! 😄
Yup.
Stella, as usual beat me to it.
But it amuses me when we are in sync. LOL!
If you walk into a knife did you get stabbed or was your lack of training around knives that fucked you?
How does "woman behavior" not reference "types of behavior?"
Woman is the descriptor.
It's not a condemnation of women it's a condemnation of the behavior. Same as saying hyper feminized in my mind. But that's just difference in perception.
The push across both political party’s has been to restrict immigration but then the foreign policy has been to create chaos that breeds the conditions we are seeing. the migrant crisis has been in the making for decades thanks to the drug war, us spurred political instability in central and South America. The bankers and financial players that control our political system want to push as many migrants north as possible. This will provide the excuse for increased militarization and surveillance.
We should expect it to get worse. They apparently doubled the size of the force and cut the training time, just this year, and immediately put the newbies in the fray.
And then there is all of that MAGA bling bling stuff, trying to look Tough on Crime, before the Midterms. Same as they've been doing with the National Guard.
X (formerly Twitter)
Homeland Security (@DHSgov) on X
Iced out. 🥶
Yes.
Exactly so.
@npub1q6ya...t3sh its like they addressed the blackface so the audience in context
Yes, in general I mean we have a limited context window to base any decisions on. If the previous moments were of heightened tension it could mean something.
In any case, my general view is that online opinion polls cannot produce a valid justice system as their outcome, the medium simply doss not allow it, so any discussion in trying to determine guilt is only ever inflammatory anyway.
*nods*
A perfect recipe for disaster. As planned. IMO.
That is also fair assessment. It is all a mess.
That may be the case, but American citizens aren't required to tolerate the chaos in their cities, regardless of what the cause was.
I don't know if that is the case, tho. The idea that every shitty foreign government is the fault of Evil White Men is too simplistic for me.
Just read that she and her partner moved to Canada, to escape Trump, and then came back.
The history of the CIA is the history of doing the work of the military industrialists and bankers to fuck up countries to enable resource extraction. The side effect of this neo colonialism is a migrant crisis. It’s also the history of the drug use crisis.
This is not about blaming white men. The sex and skin color of these vampires is immaterial.
Get fucked.
For sure they are might able to lower the sentence, when it can be shown, that the murder does feel guilty and would not do it never again.
But those circumstances can not lead to be freed from the charges.
No, it isn't just White Man issues. It's beyond that. It is bigger than humanity, even.
These kind of incentives can make the decision easier to get that job and then deal with the consequences...
"Incentives to become an ICE agent include a signing bonus of up to $50,000, student loan repayment and forgiveness options, overtime pay, and enhanced retirement benefits. The agency aims to hire 10,000 new personnel as part of its recruitment drive."
The Center Square
More than 150,000 apply to work with ICE, CBP offering incentives to join
(The Center Square) – More than 150,000 people have applied to work with U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) as recruitment effort...
Well, they kinda kept their word about leaving over Trump.
They only reason they got in was because they are gay, then, in my wild speculation, because they seem pretty useless otherwise and Canada has rather strict (otherwise) immigration laws for white people.
Yes. 100% yes.
It's not immaterial. The entire argument is incredibly racist and sexist, as it assumes that migrants are all helpless victims, and that Americans and Europeans deserve to live in terror to atone for the sins of their ancestors, forever.
There are plenty of really horrible people in the countries of origin, and there always have been. And they've _always_ had shitty governments. That is normal. Having a non-shitty government was what made places like the USA and Germany so wealthy: it is a rare advantage (that we are losing). They are not superior humans, free of sin and justified in invading and conquering foreign lands, merely by grace of being born poorer and tanning faster. Just as we aren't justified, merely for being richer and paler.
And, yes, the CIA has been up to some seriously shady shit for as long as I can remember, but our countries are crawling with foreign agitators and spies, and everyone claims that they have no success here. Only the CIA works. Because we have Magic White People dust, that we sprinkle over ourselves, to make us immune to the bullshit they are saying and that keep us from taking their money to be sell-outs. Sure. Okay. Tell that to the people in New York and Minnesota, who currently have crazy commies rampaging across their front yard.
The only emotion I have emoted is vast amusement.
How about you just hush yourself if you have nothing either amusing or interesting to say. heh
Wonder why they came back?
😂
Yup. It is attractive until it isn't.
She backed up so she could go around him. He drew his weapon before that. He had no reason to draw.
He's trained by the IDF.
He is wired for violence. She wasn't.
His fault. Not hers.
Pretty sure it was to do exactly what they did.
Of course I don't know. But that is my wild speculation.
I understand why this is difficult for you: you don’t understand the difference between rhetoric and dialectic, passion and principle, thinking and feeling.
Read Aristotle’s “Rhetoric”
You will find it a most helpful first step to treat your state of ignorance.
good news, it’s curable!
He's trained by the IDF?
Your aloofness is laughable.
I have rather fun with my ignorance, you arrogant twit.
Go find another classician to pick the bones of the long dead with.
Or do I need to say that in Latin for you to figure out that I actually might know about all that but don't choose to bother with it.
Oh geez…
You speak incoherently.
Out both sides of your mouth.
The load bearing joists of society aren’t something to “have rather fun with.”
Stick to your lane.
Appreciate people who can change their opinions when new evidence is presented.
Making up excuses about fake bodycam footage?
Ice don't wear bodycams.
But pedophiles are known for making up lies as excuses to support Donald Trump
Seriously, the fact these scum are still lying and saying that non existent bodycam footage justifies killing citizens.
When everyone has already seen the footage that the agent filmed on his phone.
Why are you lying?
Why are you lying?
I have. It isn't conclusive at the exact moment needed for clarity.
It does open the possibility that she did hit him, but it sure doesn't look like it from the other videos
Either way, this sucks.
She pulled out of her own driveway and was on her way to go pick her kid up from school.
Why are you spreading lies to justify murder of citizens?
The guy filmed the murder himself..
Respect to people who take responsibility and change their opinions when presented by new information.
View quoted note →I asked questions…
How am I spreading lies?
"Leftism is the pretense of empathy, devoid of its reality. Anybody with empathy would understand that the agent is not looking at the tires and calculating where scientifically one should expect the car to go. He's looking at the driver and observing the current direction of the car: headed towards him."
- Nick Szabo
At :44 you see the officer being rammed *hard* by lesbian rambo:
X (formerly Twitter)
Alpha News (@AlphaNews) on X
BREAKING: Alpha News has obtained cellphone footage showing perspective of federal agent at center of ICE-involved shooting in Minneapolis
Yes saw this video. fucking retard stood in front of a car and then leaned into it while he unholsteted his gun. He shouldn’t have been any where near the car you bootlicking statist cuck.
Good lord you guys are gay.
Nah the dude literally leans into the car like a low iq retard. Made a situation he could try to Justify shooting someone. Try less cop dick in your diet it will be better for your soul.
I did. It doesn't clearly show what we want, when we want. The video and screen caps that I and another posted paint a more clear picture in my estimation.
There's still room and time for more information. I do hope we see more and better evidence brought to light soon.
Here's something idk why no one has brought up. The man is standing in the middle of the street while he and his partners attempt to enforce laws that are not under their jurisdiction (state traffic laws). They were in the wrong as soon as they walked up to the car so anything after that point, they are operating outside of their duties and should have called the local cops.
If you're jay walking and someone almost hits you with you're car, you aren't justified in shooting them. Get the fuck out of the street if you don't want to get hit by a car.
If I'm j walking and almost get hit, do I get to shoot the person who almost hit me?
thugs cover their faces - u r thug supporter
Yeah the footage from his phone proves that it was a premeditated murder.
Calling the victim a "fucking bitch" right after shooting her face 3 times also shows a total lack of remorse.
She was literally just pulling out of her driveway to go pick her kid up from school.
There wasn't even a protest happening.
But pedophiles who support Trump won't let it go, they just keep making up excuses to justify the murder of American citizens as a way to distract from the Epstein files.
In that rather simplistic and idiotic logic, yes.
This guy?
Your source is an asmongold reaction video?
Yeah, it isn't a fabrication, but the angle might be misleading.
Her reason for backing up is conjecture; the officer did not know why she was backing up.
Totally fucked up that ICE is trained by the IDF. Personally I haven't verified this but I've heard that it's true, and it would make sense.
That, my friend, is called critical thinking, something the MAGA cult clearly doesn’t have.
They’ll say she was trying to ram him even though all of the evidence points to the contrary. They’ll say it was a spontaneous event, yet the ICE officer managed to get his phone out and start recording well before the incident, which is certainly not SOP. They’ll say the driver deserved it, even though you can clearly see that she wanted to cooperate, it was her wife that was the instigator.
So, yeah, murder, possibly 1st degree..
What other reason would she be backing up for? If she was looking to get a running start, then she pointed her wheel in the wrong direction. Not conjecture, common sense.
Yup. It's a mess and it's ok to not have a conclusion at this point or ever. But it is best to learn what you can from this to be able to prevent the same thing from happening to you and yours.
I guess the videos I've seen are not so clear with the wheel direction, and in general it's much easier from the outside, in retrospect, to come to a conclusion.
I can't imagine in the moment how either of them were making split-second decisions.
Not defending him, by the way; I'm horrified by this shooting. I just don't know that we can ever know for sure what was going through everyone's head.
She was obstructing and impeding. This wasn't enforcement of traffic laws this was her being told to get out of the car for obstructing.
You're finding a clever way to argue your point but it's still wrong.
False equivalency.
Just saying that doesn't make it true. Demonstrate how they are different. He was in the road where cars drive and their goal was to get her to move the car so they could pass.
Can you cite the federal statute then that covers impeding and obstructing bc the language matters.
I could agree that we will probably never know exactly what her intentions were, but that’s not the most disgusting part. That would be dress up Barbie Noem and Cheeto Hitler’s blatant defamation of this woman before they even had all the facts. Trump said, and this is the fucked up part, that she drove over him and dragged him down the street. If this isn’t clear evidence of the narrative they are trying to push, I don’t what it is.
• 18 U.S.C. § 111 – Assaulting, resisting, or impeding a federal officer
• 18 U.S.C. § 1501 – Obstruction of a federal officer
• 18 U.S.C. § 371 – Conspiracy to obstruct (in some contexts)
Yeah I can use ChatGPT as well as the next guy.
Their goal was to remove her from the vehicle for committing the crime of obstructing and impeding.
She was attempting to flee the scene of a crime.
From the video I've seen, the road is open, is there other video where it's not?
Weren't you just talking about how it wasn't their job to enforce traffic violations? And now you're saying the road was clear? I'm having trouble following now.
Either way. Here's a video where she's parked perpendicular across the road laying on her horn.
yeah, lots of narratives from various directions.
It's super partisan, with MAGA seeing one set of facts and Libs seeing another.
It's discouraging to watch. Outrage on both sides makes sense given what they're seeing.
If the road is clear, she's not obstructing. Your video shows multiple cars passing by her, which to me means she's not obstructing, so her being parked in the middle of the road is a traffic violation and outside of their jurisdiction.
If the car:
• Blocks their vehicle
• Prevents execution of a warrant
• Impedes surveillance or pursuit
• Creates a safety hazard during an operation
Then the legal characterization changes.
At that point, federal agents do have authority to act, because they are no longer addressing “parking” — they are addressing interference.
Possible lawful actions:
• Ordering the driver to move the vehicle
• Temporarily detaining the driver
• Physically moving the vehicle if necessary
• Using force proportional to the need to clear the obstruction
The authority comes from:
• Federal obstruction statutes
• Implied authority to carry out lawful duties
• Officer safety doctrines
They still would not issue a parking citation, but they can neutralize the obstruction.
Doesn't look to me like she is blocking traffic. Look at the moment the truck pulls up to her, there is a whole other lane. Also, right before that truck pulls up, another car goes by. It also looks like she even waves them on.
I think this and why the fuck would you stand in front of a car are what the entirety of the argument lie upon.
I wasn't there. Were you? All we are going off of are videos that are all from undesirable angles.
Also everything you're saying essentially comes down to officer discretion.
Is this woman not responsible for her own actions? Or does she get a pass for some reason? She was ordered to get out of the vehicle. She didn't comply. She attempted to flee and or strike the agent with her vehicle.
"Why the fuck would you stand in front of a car"
Why wouldn't she just get out of the car when ordered?
Think she would still be alive if she just complied? Why do you believe she doesn't have to comply with orders given by a federal agent?
Definitely would agree on complying leads to her being alive, doesn't make shooting her the right move. Could have just got her plate and issued a warrant. But you can't answer my question with a question. Highway patrol doesn't start in the middle of the street while writing tickets. Why? Because that is retarded. Just because you're a federal agent doesn't mean you get to act retarded and are exempt from the consequences of your actions.
Your Officer Discrection point is valid until he uses unnecessary deadly force. Even the laws you cited say using proportional force, it's very obvious that he is escalating, not using proportional force OR he is intentionally using his body as a barrier of which the possible consequence is getting hit.
There are two narratives, she was either trying to get away, which all of the evidence, at the very least, suggests.
Or, she was intent on trying to run down the agent, which absolutely no evidence corroborates.
By all means, if there was any evidence, outside of their subjective opinion, that proved her intent was to kill him, I would back that asshole up 100%, even if he did violate numerous ICE policies. However, since none has been brought forward and local authorities have been cut out of the investigation, that’s pretty damning if they are still trying to push the self defense narrative.
This is why it’s partisan, because those that oppose their disgusting narrative, have been cut out of the loop that would allow them to prove as much. It also guarantees that evidence can’t be tampered with when all parties have access to it.
The woman was ordered to get out of the vehicle. She didn't comply. She attempted to flee and potentially attempted to strike the officer with her vehicle. It is up to the discretion of the officer how they choose to handle that.
"Unnecessary force" is not an objective statement. Again this is decided by the officer.
Your argument is that the woman should've just been allowed to flee a crime by federal agents. Pretty certain that's not what the title of Law Enforcement is generally paid to do on a conceptual level.
It really doesn't matter IF you agree with it.
Her last words (smiling) "I'm not mad at you."
His next words after firing "Fucking bitch."
Total deplorable.
Jim Craddock
This is his goal, folks. #AI #politics #AIArt #Art
Bingo
Very good point
What crime did she commit? If you're gunna say obstruction, watch the video, there are dozens of cars passing her.
Do you honestly believe when I'm saying "obstruction" I mean that she's obstructing traffic? Is that a serious take?
I already posted this once I guess you didn't read it the first time so maybe you should take the time to read it aloud to yourself so you can grasp the content better.
If the car:
• Blocks their vehicle
• Prevents execution of a warrant
• Impedes surveillance or pursuit
• Creates a safety hazard during an operation
Then the legal characterization changes.
At that point, federal agents do have authority to act, because they are no longer addressing “parking” — they are addressing interference.
Possible lawful actions:
• Ordering the driver to move the vehicle
• Temporarily detaining the driver
• Physically moving the vehicle if necessary
• Using force proportional to the need to clear the obstruction
The authority comes from:
• Federal obstruction statutes
• Implied authority to carry out lawful duties
• Officer safety doctrines
They still would not issue a parking citation, but they can neutralize the obstruction.
Here's more information that you could be looking up all on your own but I guess you need your hand held.
Criminal obstruction:
Intentional or knowing conduct that materially interferes with a law enforcement officer’s lawful duties, beyond mere speech or presence.
Impeding surveillance:
Purposeful acts that materially disrupt or expose lawful law enforcement monitoring activities.
Impeding pursuit:
Conduct that physically or practically prevents officers from lawfully chasing or apprehending a suspect.
This is all just out there and you can read I think so? I guess you should be taking the time to do that instead of throwing a hissy fit cause you don't like that some dumb lady got killed? I don't know? Maybe you just really like immigrants or something?
Do you honestly believe when I'm saying "obstruction" I mean that she's obstructing traffic? Is that a serious take? (No)
If the car:
• Blocks their vehicle (see video, does not apply)
• Prevents execution of a warrant (not applicable)
• Impedes surveillance or pursuit (not applicable)
• Creates a safety hazard during an operation (not applicable)
Possible lawful actions:
...
• Using force proportional to the need to clear the obstruction (shooting the driver is not proportional)
Criminal obstruction:
Intentional or knowing conduct that materially interferes with a law enforcement officer’s lawful duties, beyond mere speech or presence.
^^^
This point right here disproves your whole argument even-if she was blocking the road.
In your opinion.
Your opinion doesn't matter. You know the only person whose opinion really matters in this case?
The agents that were there.
Wanna know why?
It's up to their discretion.
You just don't like that. And that's fine. But it doesn't change anything.
Also I really like the cherry picking you did to make your point as if your entire argument wasn't also made moot by this-
"Impeding surveillance:
Purposeful acts that materially disrupt or expose lawful law enforcement monitoring activities.
Impeding pursuit:
Conduct that physically or practically prevents officers from lawfully chasing or apprehending a suspect."
This combined with officer discretion pretty much just ends this entire debate.
Those agents clearly believed that she and her wife were preventing one or both of those things and they needed to be removed from the equation. They were told to exit the vehicle. They didn't. At which point they attempted to flee after committing what was then criminal impeding/obstruction.
It's just completely pointless to talk about any of this because you're going to see what you want to.
If they stopped for you, then their wife who was just agitating and harassing you yes drive baby drive! Suddenly floors it at you and hit you? Absolutely
One of the narratives doesn't mention that she was there specifically as an agitator, that she had moments of resisting just before. Does that excuse the shooting? No, of course not, but it changes the picture.
The other narrative seems to think that since they're frustrated with immigration, militarized response is a reasonable solution.
Some folks seem to think that the agent went up to the car and shot someone in the head out of the blue. Most of the people that see that narrative don't realize that there are videos that support the self-defense motive. I've seen them.
(I don't necessarily believe them - or the others, for that matter - because I'm not sure how to verify any of it.)
In general liberals don't understand why there's any support at all for ICE. I think they attribute it to bigotry, but it's at least partly because they don't see many of the stories that conservatives see.
Trump supporters see stories of an 8yo killed by an immigrant who had been previously been arrested for DUIs and somehow was still 1) not behind bars and 2) in the US. They don't understand why the media is focused on an adult agitator rather than an innocent child so they conclude that liberals are heartless and manipulative and somehow miss that state violence is a different beast altogether.
From all of the evidence I have seen, it was her wife that was agitating the ICE goon and when he broke SOP by pulling out his cell phone and recording, I saw and heard the driver say she would cooperate with them.
Then, after he walked all the way around the van again and stood in front of the vehicle (another violation of SOP) while his ICE goon buddy approached the car and tried to forcefully remove her. When he realized the door was locked, he tried reaching and that is when she put the van in reverse, first turning the wheel to the left, the throwing it into drive and fully turning the wheel to the right and began to accelerate.
None of this is conjecture, you can literally see it on the video, but this is when MAGA began to distort what actually happened to suit their narrative. Trump said she ran him over and dragged him down the street, which clearly didn’t happen, that’s why he fired. Dress up Barbie tried to say due to PTSD from a previous incident where he was dragged down the street, essentially telling everyone who the agent was 🤦🏻♂️, and that was her interpretation of why he fired. So, the president outright lied to try and justify it and Noem spun a PTSD narrative to try and justify it, two completely different opinions not backed up by anything that can be proven, especially since both statements were made even before her body went cold. And while subjective, that clearly showed me what their narrative was.
It’s been said that she was impeding a federal investigation, yet you can clearly see a vehicle driving around her fairly easily, so I am not buying that either. Also labeling her a domestic terrorist to try and justify it when it was simply one person exercising her first amendment right. If anyone is the terrorist, it’s the agent, given that are literally terrorizing civilians as an excuse to get to people they assume are here illegally.
Ok, so, back to the video and what we can actually prove. Did she bump him when she tried to get away, possibly but that’s because he was practically sitting on her hood (again, a violation of SOP), if he was standing even one foot back, it never would’ve touched him. That’s giving him the benefit of the doubt, even if I personally think he wasn’t touched at all. He then proceeds to fire three shots at a moving vehicle (another SOP violation), killing her.
As far as the narrative that everyone who is resisting ICE is doing it to protect alleged undocumented immigrants, that’s nonsense as well. No one is saying undocumented people should be allowed to stay here, what we are saying is that we will not stand for these Gestapo style raids, whether or not they are undocumented or whatever, does not give them the authority to treat them like dogs while stepping all over their rights.
There is absolutely no oversight and most of them aren’t even properly trained, so it’s not really a surprise that this happened. This is what Trump wants, division and internal fighting. He figures if we are fighting each other we will be distracted from the illegal shirt he has been doing. I honestlyDGAF about the Epstein files, those are the least of my concerns when it comes to Cheeto Hitler.
I will say, it has been nice being able to have a civilized conversation, trying to have one with MAGA is an exercise in futility. I would have a better chance of having an intellectual conversation with a grapefruit, so, thank you for that.✌🏻
He has the right to keep his gun because he was defending himself and that girl try to run him over she deserve to get shot for what she did. You people are so sickening and you people who are sickening will be judged by God
"1.Deadly force defined. For the purposes of this section, "deadly force" means force which the actor uses with the purpose of causing, or which the actor should reasonably know creates a substantial risk of causing, death or great bodily harm. The intentional discharge of a firearm, other than a firearm loaded with less lethal munitions and used by a peace officer within the scope of official duties, in the direction of another person, or at a vehicle in which another person is believed to be, constitutes deadly force. "Less lethal munitions" means projectiles which are designed to stun, temporarily incapacitate, or cause temporary discomfort to a person. "Peace officer" has the meaning given in section"
The debate about this is over. It was a killing. It wasn't a murderer.
"(1) Self-Defense. When deadly force reasonably appears to be necessary to protect a protective force officer who reasonably believes himself or herself to be in imminent danger of death or serious bodily harm."
10 CFR 1047.7 -- Use of deadly force.
Anyone trying to say that they know what was going through the agent's mind is a hyperfeminized lunatic who thinks they can read minds.
It wasn’t self defense. The agent had no business approaching the vehicle or attempting to detain her. She was fleeing a kidnapping attempt if you want to get pedantic. He murdered her because he didn’t like her politics. He wasn’t acting within the scope of his duties and she wasn’t doing anything where he had the authority to impede her. You don’t know jack shit about the law and you are just trying to cope as you realize you are an authoritarian. Good luck with that.
You are a sick person
And apparently you are retarded.
It's truly not worth engaging with any of you.
I really hope your anarchist multicultural society comes to fruition. I just hope it's as far away from me as humanly possible.
It'll be a real rude awakening for you guys.
Yea ok buddy because im not and you Democrats are so sickening
Democrat? Is that what you get from this. Retard was over estimating you. I don’t accept the state murdering people. I don’t accept the state harassing people. I don’t accept untrained armed masked agents of the state running around being dicks. Fuck the state.
You Democrats keep saying what you want but in the end you will be judged by God.
I hope you find a sufficiently powerful
Daddy to spank you when you are naughty and make you feel safe.
Are you a teenager? Am I talking to a teenager?
Triggered?
I detect no Democrats in this discussion.
At all...
You're obsessing over something that doesn't, in this direct context, exist.
It mostly makes you look even more delusional.
You will, too, buddy. You might not want to forget that.
God will judge you for being obsessed with a bunch of dudes is spandex fighting over a ball while the precious state you worship murders children.
You are getting muted
If liking dudes in spandex is wrong, I don't want to be right.
🚬
None of them do. Especially not Sars Cov 2. Or do you actually believe that a genetic fragment can disperse from a mud puddle in China to every nook and cranny of the earth? That's batshit retarded.
You have been thoroughly bamboozled.
