Thread - Nostr Hypermedia

Thanks for the clarification. If I understand correctly, OP_CHECKSEQUENCEVERIFY can only go 65,535 blocks (about 15 months) into the future. I still think the far future is better for this 😀. The main reason to give the burned sats to miners, and not just burn them immediately in an OP_RETURN, is to help with the security budget in the future If the unlocking is too soon, it gives miners the incentive to cheat in the way we discussed a couple of months ago. A short lockup would allow a large mining pool to advertize "pay us 10 sats, and we'll pretend that we burned 12 sats for you". A large mining pool can do this today as there is a good chance that they will also mine the block at which the burned sats become unlocked and therefore they are "fake-burning" sats by paying themselves I chose 12 sats and 10 sats there, based on the rough numbers that large pools control about 20% of hashrate

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Replies (4)

ThomasV 1 week ago

We cannot use CLTV for proof of burn, because it would allow miners to cheat. This is explained in the whitepaper: https://notary.electrum.org/n/proof-of-burn.pdf (see footnote on page 4)

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SatsAndSports 6 days ago

So you're saying that miners would delay the notarization transaction until the height specified in the CLTV, so that they can notarize and redeem in the same block Yes, they could in theory, and that would allow the cheating that we discussed before. But they're not going to delay the notarization transaction for decades, if we're sending it decades into the future The end users of the system (I mean the users of nostr clients who are consuming nostr events and want to see which events have burned sats associated with them) are looking for reliable notaries, i.e. notaries that get the notarizing transactions into blocks within hours or days (not years or decades). The end user's software could easily check that the notarization transaction is mined at least N blocks before whichever height is specified/implied by the CLTV or CSV locks

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ThomasV 3 days ago

It's not about delaying the transaction. If you only rely on CLTV, a spammer can mine a notarization transaction today and pretend that it has been published a long time ago. But you are right, the software could additionally check that the notarization was mined N blocks before the locktime. This introduces an extra parameter, and it feels a bit like misusing CLTV, but it would indeed allow for longer time delays than CSV.

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SatsAndSports 2 days ago

The extreme case of this could be very interesting for game theory, leading to just one notary getting a very large monopoly Imagine a single notary does a deal with all the big mining pools which together control 90% of hashrate That notary could advertise: "give me 10 sats and I'll notarise it as 50 sats". As they control 90% of hashrate, they will on average get 45 sats back from those 50, and hence the real cost to the notary is just 5 sats (on average) compared to the 10 sats that they earn from the creator of the nostr content With CSV, the delay is just about 15 months, and that's short enough that the big notary is happy to wait I think the only solution is to really make sure that today's miners don't see any value from the burning, so either notarizing to an OP_RETURN, or use CLTV to send it very far in the future @c03rad0r , is this the right npub for Espen?: @npub16dzd...g7ac I think he had the same idea