you're calling every single nostr developer over the last 3 years an amateur. that's a big yikes. maybe a growing protocol isn't for you. you can come back when you're ready. we'll still be here building.

Not at all, I’m calling people who are prepared to test in production fools and stating that it is indicative that they don’t have a valuable production environment or care much for their users.

my dude. everything is product here. the only way to not have a production would be to use a brand new set of keys on a brand new relay and have your profile and application only use that one specific relay. you absolutely can do that, and sometimes developers do this, but that's not a real world scenario. you can't easily build a testing environment. which is why you see most devs here building and testing in production.

If developers can’t be bothered to build a test environment, it only means that there aren’t consequences worth the expense/hassle to bugs going out into live Prod, which can only means that, sadly, NOSTR production is still a live sandpit. I would dearly love this to change by the way. But it’s so not Bitcoin standard yet is it?

And I hope you are taking this on the constructive spirit I truly mean it. And I thank you for engaging. And yes, I have had a few glasses tonight, hence the typos🤣

speech hates to be hindered.

I don’t know what this even means?

Ahem: Microsoft.

What do you mean? Microsoft have not cared for their users in years?

Full send

I kind of agree with this take tho. Shouldn't be proud of testing in prod... Sometimes the project is just too small or you don't have enough, but the goal is to get away from ametuer development, not to "embrace it". Assuming making a sustainable product is the goal.

This is something many large companies do, because they are unable to fully test everything in an isolated environment. So they test in production with A->B tests or canary tests at THE MOST. It is an extremely common practice at every engineering company that is not dealing with stuff like sending people into space and life or death. The reason why, is if you let it hold you back from releasing, your development slows to a snails pace and you loose to your competitors and never ship. Source: much devops pager duty.

You’re right, it is everywhere the ‘move fast and break things’ attitude. But it makes a person want to work in the life and death serious areas so you can escape it. And like you say, it’s the support staff who get burnt by bugs or data issues in Prod. I suppose I saw Bitcoin as the kind of refreshing antidote to that mainstream approach - building its own reputation by it being rigorous and rock solid. Maybe I’ve just romanticised it to myself? But I do hope NOSTR can take its responsibilities as seriously as Bitcoin.