They are different stuff, cannot compare oranges with apples

Are you sure?

Totally, what about you?

Care to explain the difference?

DVMs describes a pattern for clients to interact with some computation or functionality, and bots are some sort of systems that have a defined behaviour and do stuff

Can the clients interact with bots via events to be supplied with those services that dvm aim to provide? If so, why dvm are useful abstraction? And what are the advantages of dvms over simple http endpoint?

A bot can have any kind of arbitrary behavior, such as listening for and responding to kind 1 notes, or listening for and responding to any other type of event in they way they want. DVMS describes and tries to standardize how this interaction is done by defining requests, responses, and job feedback. Of course, you could do the same thing and call it a bot, but that is not the point, bots can use dvms to solve some of their features. The differences between an http enpoint and a dvm is nostr

Hmm, I really think we shouldn’t call all those different things the same thing, that could get pretty confusing. They’re different enough to deserve separate standards. In a broad sense, you’re describing a relay, which is pretty much the only type of server on Nostr, aside from some more exotic experiments. They are servers and can have HTTP endpoints, as you mentioned. There’s even a relay management API now, so why not a service API? They can totally provide HTTP JSON APIs, which they’re already doing. Now, as for bots and DVMs, from my point of view, they’re still different things. I see bots as some kind of autonomous agent that follows instructions or has simple behavior to listen, react, or do whatever they need to gather notes. They can publish notes based on certain conditions and can be as complex or simple as you want. They use DVMs to handle some functionality or access services, they both have in common that they do not need to manage or spin up a relay, they can listen and write to multiple relays. Also, DVMs can have HTTP endpoints if you want, but I really think relays, bots, and DVMs are different stuff altogether.

what is a bot?

A pubkey that responds automatically to structured events when mentioned, processing them through predefined schemas and potentially publishing result events in response

“When mentioned” - so you mean via kind:1 events? What do you mean by “structured events” then?

In mentioned I mean any event that tags him. A better rephrasing: A pubkey that listens to events tagging him, processing them through predefined schemas and potentially publishing result events in response

Sounds like DVMs without payments

What event kinds will the bot listen for?

Good. So we don’t need to keep both concepts.

And since bots is already an established concept I’ll suggest sticking with it

Yes, DVMs are already run by lots of people and used by lots of users. You haven’t even defined what a bot is more than 1-2 sentences

That’s for the bots creator to decide

Please link to this established concept for me

Yes, bots are already run by lots of people and used by lots of users

So you do just want to do it all via kind 1 events then? But what if I want to call an AI model with specific parameters, or what if I want to compute a web of trust to filter out my events, or what if I want to generate an algorithmic feed? To do any of those, I need to give more structured information as an input and it would pollute the kind 1 space. Nothing is preventing anyone from making Nostr bots like the Twitter bot article you posted - you have been able to do this for a long time. DVMs solve a different problem

It solves a different problem, unless you plan to start dumping json into your kind 1 events content field. I might have to unfollow you if you start doing that because it would clutter my social feed

If you use something other than kind 1 you have started to move away from that Wikipedia article you mentioned and more towards what DVMs do….

I have never said I want to all via kind 1. If you want to say that “regular bots” act only on kind 1 and “dvm” act on all kinds, that’s ok too. I’m not sure this difference requires a whole new name and concept to learn.

Dirty Jewish bot

You would need to cry harder than

Cope harder

More please