>> sorry but you don't understand Always a great argument. Especially when you play the strawman. My argument: If Russia + NATO run defense for Ukraine, Ukraine will (technically) remain sovereign. Ukraine will also be in a place to prosper. Much like Japan. Your argument: This has nothing to do with NATO. These two arguments aren't addressing the same point. I understand you to be describing Russian reasons for the conflict, while I'm proposing a solution to lasting peace. Would Russia accept? Possibly, both sides need the war to end at this point. Attrition wars are not a happy place to be. Even if you have the superior numbers. Also, my point about NATO was that Ukraine would have been crushed quickly, if they did not have NATO support.